To not let DS pull out of doing the 11-plus

[Porcuine20]

Feeling massively conflicted here and would welcome some perspective.
DS (just finished year 5) is bright, working at greater depth in everything, particularly keen on maths and science and at the moment wants to be an engineer when he grows up. Our catchment secondary isn’t great, behaviour issues, hardly any extra-curricular, below average GCSE results. We used to be in the catchment for another slightly better school but not any more since thousands of new houses were built. We’re in a county that has grammar schools and does the 11-plus, so suggested having a go to DS which he agreed to and he’s been doing tutoring, which he’s largely enjoyed and he’s made some great progress. His mock exam results have mostly been at a level where he would be in the running for a grammar school place. However, now it’s drawing near and we’re trying keep him working a bit over the summer (the tutors have a summer revision programme, as the exam is soon after school goes back in September), he is having a big wobble, saying he thinks he’ll fail, we’re ruining his life by making him work over the summer, he doesn’t want to do it any more and wants to just go to the local school.
AIBU to say he should still do it (and do these few weeks of revision)? I’m trying not to put too much pressure on, just lots of positive encouragement, we’re still doing fun days out and trips away. But we’ve all invested so much in it (including him with all the hours of tutoring and homework) it seems crazy not to at least try. I feel like if he pulled out and then his friends did it and got in (several are trying) he’d be gutted.. and I also really believe he’d enjoy the school and opportunities if he succeeded. But he is thoroughly miserable at the moment and I kind of feel like I’m steamrollering him into it… I don’t want to be ‘that’ mum but at the same time want the best for him. Anyone been in the same position, what did you do?

I hear what you are saying but, unless things have radically changed recently, I don’t think the 11+ is memory or knowledge based exam. Analytical skills and techniques can be refined through practice but I think that’s why PP said that there’s no new content at this stage.

But generally speaking, it’s great that you figured out a learning style that worked for you but I expect there are lots of people that wouldn’t work for, so if teachers taught to suit those that cram, they’d probably be doing the slow and steady students a disservice.

@Porcuine20 he is having a big wobble, saying he thinks he’ll fail, we’re ruining his life by making him work over the summer, he doesn’t want to do it any more and wants to just go to the local school.

I haven't read all of the replies, but I've read your updates - I think you've summed it up really well by saying he's having 'a big wobble' .

Kids at that age don't always know their strengths and weaknesses and often say they 'don't want to do it any more' because they're not sure that they can do it - but remember they also don't want to disappoint parents!

This sounds like what it could be in this case - he thinks he’ll fail, we’re ruining his life by making him work over the summer, he doesn’t want to do it any more and wants to just go to the local school -
Sometimes they just need a big dose of 'yes, you can do it - but there's no pressure ' to back them up and help them feel positive and help them feel 'yes, I can do it'

We've all had a 'big wobble' at some time in our lives - even as adults ! - and sometimes we just need someone to believe in us, to cheer us on to make us feel positive. Isn't that something that we all need? (and this is why we turn to Mumsnet!!??)

Doesn't a DC need the same sort of advice / cheering on / bucking up ........ call it what you will.

It's hard when you're trying to not let parents and teachers down when they're all expecting you to do well .............

But also, parents should try and remember that the 11-plus isn't the be-all and end-all of everything.

Yes. we all want the best education for our children, but I've known many of my friends who ' wasted' their time at school and then found out what they wanted to do in their mid-20s and even mid-30s and very happily retrained (with a passion!)

It's never too late these days, because there are so many opportunities.

Tbh, It doesn't matter if he passes the 11-plus and it doesn't matter if he fails the 11-plus.
Different schools will teach different things - different life lessons.

And there are so many educational establishments / institutions today offering different options that you always have the opportunity to take extra qualifications if you want to.

Your job as a parent is to know what's right for your child - and what they're ready for at this age (far easier said than done!! 😳)

Speaking as a parent (who passed the 11-plus and went to a grammar school) of 2 children: I wanted to put them through the 11-plus and send them to a grammar school - it wouldn't have actually suited either child .

One passed the 11-plus but didn't want to to go to a school where she wouldn't have any of her primary school friends - and is now working in education as Head of her speciality.
The other didn't seem suited to taking the 11-plus - and is a very well-respected lawyer in her field

What I'm trying to say is that it's all about about knowing your children, about trusting in their abilities and supporting them at all ages.. It's an on-going process - however young or old - they are.
There is always the opportunity to do what you need to do to get where you want to be

I think your trip away can be a valuable breathing space for you all :)

Normally, I’d say you shouldn’t push a child to do something like the 11+ but he’s more or less on the last stretch and it would be gutting to throw all that away now so I’d insist he keeps at it. He’s probably knackered from end of the school year and doesn’t want to think about school at all for the next 6 weeks. I don’t blame him at all.

Is there something he’d really like to do at the end of the holidays as a reward for his hard work and perseverance?

He is bored of it and needs a week off. Let him have a full break for 10 days and then try again.

DS is the same age and I can imagine the struggle if he didn't want to do it! I'd probably try to talk him round with talk of it only being for one summer, the easiest route isn't always the most rewarding route to take, just give it a go, and if all else fails, no more Xbox 😂

he might be miserable now but in the long run he wont even remember this. if he gets into grammar school he will have a lot more opportunities and most likely will get top GCSE grades allowing him to do whatever he wants in the future, future him will thank you

And what if he doesn't?

I'd make him do it as well but maybe reduce the study time over the summer hols. It's hard but it's our job to push them a bit especially when you know they can do it. My eldest passed the 11+ then had a massive wobble before going to the grammar. Pushed on and he's absolutely loved it and wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I even get the odd bit of recognition now of my support (rare glimmer 🤣)

Now pushing youngest son who I think is bright enough to get into the six form there. Neither of them would be considering a lot of things if I hadn't encouraged them to push themselves forward. Sounds really cheesy but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

So many people saying you should make him do it. I have two DC, my daughter didn't pass by a few marks and went on to get great gcse and A levels and has a very good job. She enjoyed school. Son passed with no tutoring. He passed both the Bexley and Kent tests. He hated grammar school (he chose which one as could have got into several). Not a social issue, he made many friends and was on a few sports teams. He did well in gcse but didn't pass any A levels as he hated school by then and the pressure they put him under, made him rebel and not care how he did. He is now doing a trade apprenticeship and I wish he had gone to the local comp.

@x2boys what experience do you have of grammar schools?
My son, who is very bright, always on top set at primary and passed both Bexley and Kent tests without tutoring, hated grammar school. I know many other children who did not excel in grammar schools. The children you see on gcse results day, when the school won't have a child back for A levels as their gcse aren't good enough, is heartbreaking. There's 16yr old boys (my son went to an all boys grammar but I imagine the same for girls) crying and worried that they've let their parents down. Not good.

Ps I passed 11+ but wanted to go to the school that most of my friends went to and my parents let me. One having gone to a prestigious London school, the other a local comp.
At 53 I own a house outright that is worth about £600k and have a great career. Grammar schools have only been detrimental to my son's life. I know many families who feel the same. Why pressurise your child?

Sorry, wrong tag. Meant to tag @l1s4 I apologise

Not sure if you are in super selective grammar area (sorry didn’t read full thread). But we are in a “normal” area for grammar school selection and loads of kids from our primary school passed the 11 plus. At least 7 from her Y6 class passed and it was a 6 form entry juniors so probably similar for the remaining 5 classes. A lot of kids who were “middle set bright” and not working at greater depth in all areas passed. Does he actually want to go there? I think take the pressure off, let him do an hour a week practice or whatever. Tell him he just needs to try his best and not worry about it. They need to want to go, DD at one point got fed up of practicing and talking about the 11+, but ultimately she did want to go so she stuck with low key work once a week and she passed easily.

My son's school is in the top 10. He had a very bad experience and did not want to continue education.

Non whatsoever as Grammar schools were phased out in my LEA over forty years ago,,i was replying to a poster who said the Op,s son will thank them if they get into the Grammar school abd get top GCSE results ,because that's not a given is it ?
BTW kids in Non Grammar school area ,s can still sit Alevels and do very well

I realise now yoy tagged the wrong person I think we agree, mainly .

He knows so much time and money and effort has been invested in him and that’s what’s scaring him. In his head, if he sits and fails it will all be for nothing and you’ll be disappointed, whereas if he doesn’t try then he won’t have failed. The only way to approach it is to totally remove the pressure. I’d tell him that you agree with him: if he doesn’t want to try to pass then you won’t force it. You won’t get him to do any more tutoring. This shifts the ‘responsibility’ as it will make him feel that if he doesn’t pass, it will just be because he didn’t have the full amount of tutoring (this is obviously not the case. He’s already had extensive prep). However, what you’d like him to do is at least turn up and have a go at the exam; if if he totally fails it - no problem - as then he’ll have a bit of experience sitting a formal test which will be great for his school exams and GCSEs. He can get a feel for timing / a formal process etc. So, he’ll still sit it using all of the knowledge he has (and may well pass) but he’ll feel absolutely in control and relaxed as there’s no expectation at all. And then on results day, you can congratulate him for getting in or give him a big hug for being bold enough to sit a test for the experience.

If it’s relevant, I’ve tutored for the 11+ for over twenty years. I often tell parents privately that I will discuss with them, in front of their nervous / pressured child, how we’re just going to do it to get some experience. They sit it like a child who just turns up and has a go. They usually pass :-)

As a teacher who has worked in a really really rough school I would say he'll be fine either way as bright kids with decent parents do well whoever they go to school.

Agree with @Sunshine9218

If your child needs tutoring and extra help with verbal / non verbal reasoning, they will probably struggle at grammar school. A bright child will excel in any school. As I've said before, my daughter achieved better A levels at a comp, than my son at a grammar. She enjoyed her school experience, my son did not. I asked him if he wanted to move to a 'softer' grammar in year 8 (his was super selective) but he'd already made friends, so didn't want to. He left with no A levels. My daughter left with three.

I wish people would stop peddling this crap.

I was a straight A* pupil upon leaving primary school and had "decent" parents. After five years suffering daily bullying in a crap comp, I left without a single qualification. I regularly reported the bullying, my parents regularly reported the bullying. The school did bugger all. So I ended up truanting just to avoid being beaten up or burned with fag ends.

Once I left, I did a mixture of evening classes and self study to work through GCSEs and A levels and then did chartered accountancy qualifications, again by a mix of self study and evening classes.

I only "did well" again once I'd left that hell hole.

@

Unfortunately this happens in all schools, 'better' schools could be less willing to deal with bullying as they don't believe it happens there, or not teach resilience as well as they don't think the kids need it so much.

its not that deep at all tho its one summer and one test even if he fails he will get over it

@stevienicksismyfairygodmother In some areas this just isn't true. People are tutoring so much the standard is now extremely high- in my area you need over 85% on all the Y6 maths and you need it before it's been taught in school. No one would pass without tutoring here. That might not be the case in your area.

@Porcuine20

I could have written exactly that same post myself, 7yrs ago!!

We had several long chats with our son, stopped all the tutoring/revision, assured him there was no pressure whatsoever & that the decision about taking the test & choosing his school was ultimately up to him, as he was the one who'd have to go there, day in, day out, for 5yrs. We told him that as parents, all we wanted was for him to be happy & achieve his potential. We pointed out that he had nothing to lose by just doing the test, to potentially give him more options. He realised that this made sense & went into the test on the day with a 'whatever will be, will be' kind of attitude.

He ended up passing (just!) but after genuinely careful consideration on his part, went with his gut/heart & chose the local non-grammar school. It ended up being the best decision he could have made - he absolutely thrived there! He was in all the top sets, was very happy day to day because all his friends were with him & he came out with top grade GCSEs. I think if your child is bright, studious & self driven, they'll do their absolute best wherever they are - as long as the school is even half decent.

He's currently predicted A grades for his A Levels & is looking around Universities. So, all in all, it worked out for the best for him! Obviously, that's not to say going to the grammar school would have been any different, but he's since told us that he really appreciated the fact that we let him make the decision himself & he felt more relaxed about school & although he knew he had to do his best, there was much less pressure & he could focus on what he needed to do.

At the end of the day, every child is different & you know your son best. I'd advise giving him a break from it all & talking to him. Good luck!! Being a parent is a tough gig these days!!