To not let DS pull out of doing the 11-plus

[Porcuine20]

Feeling massively conflicted here and would welcome some perspective.
DS (just finished year 5) is bright, working at greater depth in everything, particularly keen on maths and science and at the moment wants to be an engineer when he grows up. Our catchment secondary isn’t great, behaviour issues, hardly any extra-curricular, below average GCSE results. We used to be in the catchment for another slightly better school but not any more since thousands of new houses were built. We’re in a county that has grammar schools and does the 11-plus, so suggested having a go to DS which he agreed to and he’s been doing tutoring, which he’s largely enjoyed and he’s made some great progress. His mock exam results have mostly been at a level where he would be in the running for a grammar school place. However, now it’s drawing near and we’re trying keep him working a bit over the summer (the tutors have a summer revision programme, as the exam is soon after school goes back in September), he is having a big wobble, saying he thinks he’ll fail, we’re ruining his life by making him work over the summer, he doesn’t want to do it any more and wants to just go to the local school.
AIBU to say he should still do it (and do these few weeks of revision)? I’m trying not to put too much pressure on, just lots of positive encouragement, we’re still doing fun days out and trips away. But we’ve all invested so much in it (including him with all the hours of tutoring and homework) it seems crazy not to at least try. I feel like if he pulled out and then his friends did it and got in (several are trying) he’d be gutted.. and I also really believe he’d enjoy the school and opportunities if he succeeded. But he is thoroughly miserable at the moment and I kind of feel like I’m steamrollering him into it… I don’t want to be ‘that’ mum but at the same time want the best for him. Anyone been in the same position, what did you do?

If the summer tutoring is the difference between pass and fail, then he might find grammar school pace too much (speaking from personal experience of an ex-grammar girl).

This

But that's kind of the point - he's ten - he shouldn't need to worry about studying everyday over the summer holidays - he should be out playing with his mates, watching YouTube and eating, lol.

If he can't pass the 11+ without daily work, then it's very likely that grammar isn't going to be the right option for him, because the work is only going to get harder from here.

What's even more ridiculous is that's there's something like 163 Grammar schools in England and 60 odd in Northern Ireland, yet mumsnet are obsessed with them.

Give him a couple of weeks off then just do a bit each week. It's not an exam you can revise for as such, just practise the techniques.

I would say he has to do it for the simple fact that he agreed to do it and to teach him in life you can't just back out of things cause you feel like it when other people have made sacrifices for you(like paying for extra revision/tutoring).

I would however explain it doesn't mean a thing if he doesn't pass as just sitting there examines themselves is the achievement that matters here

If he can't pass the 11+ without daily revision, then he's not going to be able to cope with the normal workload at the grammar without doing regular work during the holidays. He'll fall behind.

If this was me the first thing I'd do is back off and give him 2 weeks off. No mention of 11+ at all. Then, revisit it later in August and see where their head is at.

My son only finished yesterday and he's tired. We're going to be doing some practice papers in the second half of the Summer after he's had a break and a UK holiday.

Even if he refuses to do any further work I'd 'make' him sit it, though you don't need to make that decision yet. Just take the pressure off for a little bit.

It is not true that grammar school kids have to study all summer! My dd attended grammar school and she went on holidays, trips, had downtime and eventually worked as she got older. I never studied in holidays (except the Easter prior to A levels).

It is a big mistake to think you need to constantly study to do very well at exams. In fact, you need to do the work at some time point, and then not let anxiety or stress overtake you so you can go into a flow state in the room at the right time.

Having a couple of weeks off right now, after a tiring term at school is essential, I'd give him til at least after the holiday before I even mentioned it. i would not start revving up the practice until possibly a week prior to starting back in Sept and only if he was motivated by then.

Can I just ask, has the 11+ and grammar schools really got that much harder and more intense? Following on from that, GCSEs, A-levels and degrees?

Admittedly it was in the mid-90s, but I got into grammar school with nothing more than practising with a few past papers.

Yes, I did have to study and do homework whilst there, but nothing like some posters are making out. Particularly lower down the years, I don't think I really did anything much in the summer holidays. Was one down from the top sets in maths and science and got all A*s-Bs at GCSE and As and Bs at A-level. Graduated with a 2.1 in a STEM subject from a Russell Group university.

Considering the OP's DS is achieving at greater depth level, he is going to be bright so surely he's not going to struggle with either the 11+ or the standard required at grammar school?

@Namechange85263 my point is that if he's having to study everyday at the age of 10 just to pass the exam, he's not going to cope with the work when he actually gets in.

Grammar shouldn't be some massive slog. If it is, it's likely not the place for you.

Cross-posted!

Yes, you'd think grammar schools have kids chained to their desks for eight hours a day all summer! As I said, I don't think I had any work in the summer holidays, except maybe between years 10 and 11 and 12 and 13...

I don't think the OP has said that he's having to study every day?

But it does sound as though the OP might be being over-cautious to make sure he passes and maybe subconsciously putting too much pressure on him.

If he's GD, it doesn't sound as though he needs to be so intense in the revision.

It is not true that grammar school kids have to study all summer! My dd attended grammar school and she went on holidays, trips, had downtime and eventually worked as she got older. I never studied in holidays (except the Easter prior to A levels).

I don't think I've phrased myself very well 🙃

The point I'm trying to make is that if he's struggling before he's even passed the exam (to the point that he needs to study daily) then grammar school probably isn't going to be the right place for him.

Grammar shouldn't be a slog - it should be a place where you thrive. If you can't pass the exam without daily work, then you're not likely to enjoy the grammar environment going forward.

She hasn't - but he's ten - he shouldn't be studying at all over the summer holidays.

Your job as a parent isn’t to do everything your child wants, it’s to do what’s best for them. You’ve made the decision it’s best for him if he does the 11+ so stick to it.

Well, it wouldn't hurt to do a few past papers in the summer before the exam so he's well-prepared and confident in the style of the questions.

I think most children who pass would be doing that.

If he's GD already, I don't think he will struggle at grammar. Otherwise, who is grammar for?!

Thing is you're not trying to not push the pressure on.

You're expecting him to cram for a test over the summer holidays.

So there then 3 outcomes.

A) he passes and does well at school

B) he passes but struggles at the school due to all the cramming needed to pass

C) he fails despite all the cramming

Is this really the type of offs you want your 9/10yo to give up his summer for?

If he's genuinely clever he should do well wherever - surely if there's somewhere he wants to be and is happy it's win win?

It doesn't sound like we're talking about a few past papers.

If your kids go to a good school, it’s pretty normal for them to do a little studying every summer. 90% fun, 10% study and chores in our household. To say kids shouldn’t be doing any studying at all is an opinion not a fact.

It’s week 1 of the summer holidays. I think you should give him a couple of weeks’ break. You say you don’t want to apply pressure, but you clearly are. If he is this stressed and unhappy then he won’t perform well.

FWIW, I completely disagree with grammars.

It sounds like last minute wobbles.
Are any friends going? Could you arrange a play date. If he realises other friends are doing work he might not mind as much.
Mine did the bond practice tests the summer before she sat think it was 12 papers which took about 30 mins each over 6 weeks so an hour a week total.
When she went back to school some kids had been doing hours of prep but what she did was right for her (and she passed)
Ease off. Reading classics is great for 11+ vocab and vr / do the library reading challenge?
He’s 10. You can obviously see bigger picture of what is a good fit for him.
Mine has just left grammar after 7 yrs. It suited her, nice friends. It wasn’t a super selective though.

I’d only let him do half an hour prep a day, first thing in the morning so it’s over and done with first thing and he can enjoy the rest of the day. Tell him you’ll back off and he can just do the minimum and give the exam his best shot.

A child who requires huge amount of input and work to pass the exam may find himself at the bottom of his new year group which could be detrimental to confidence.

I think they all hit this point, especially if they started studying toward the beginning of year 5. We did it in fits and bursts over the summer holidays with a bit of bribery for good measure. There were quite a few weeks over the summer where very little was done.
By autumn of year 6 my kids couldn’t look at another past paper! The hard work does need to tail off a bit so they don’t burn out.
I’d say to him that he can lay off the full on study schedule for a bit if he wants but he is still doing the exam(s) as you’ve committed and when you commit to something, you see it through.

I think you're taking a balanced approach. I understand concentrating on his weakest areas but it might be worthwhile occasionally throwing in something he finds easy, to build his confidence.

Take it one step at a time. First take the 11+. After he passes (or doesn't) you can decide which school he goes to. Emphasise keeping options open so he has more choice later.