To not let DS pull out of doing the 11-plus

[Porcuine20]

Feeling massively conflicted here and would welcome some perspective.
DS (just finished year 5) is bright, working at greater depth in everything, particularly keen on maths and science and at the moment wants to be an engineer when he grows up. Our catchment secondary isn’t great, behaviour issues, hardly any extra-curricular, below average GCSE results. We used to be in the catchment for another slightly better school but not any more since thousands of new houses were built. We’re in a county that has grammar schools and does the 11-plus, so suggested having a go to DS which he agreed to and he’s been doing tutoring, which he’s largely enjoyed and he’s made some great progress. His mock exam results have mostly been at a level where he would be in the running for a grammar school place. However, now it’s drawing near and we’re trying keep him working a bit over the summer (the tutors have a summer revision programme, as the exam is soon after school goes back in September), he is having a big wobble, saying he thinks he’ll fail, we’re ruining his life by making him work over the summer, he doesn’t want to do it any more and wants to just go to the local school.
AIBU to say he should still do it (and do these few weeks of revision)? I’m trying not to put too much pressure on, just lots of positive encouragement, we’re still doing fun days out and trips away. But we’ve all invested so much in it (including him with all the hours of tutoring and homework) it seems crazy not to at least try. I feel like if he pulled out and then his friends did it and got in (several are trying) he’d be gutted.. and I also really believe he’d enjoy the school and opportunities if he succeeded. But he is thoroughly miserable at the moment and I kind of feel like I’m steamrollering him into it… I don’t want to be ‘that’ mum but at the same time want the best for him. Anyone been in the same position, what did you do?

I'd make him sit the 11+ and give it his best shot. We're in a grammar county.

I wouldn't have had him tutored, nor expect him to do revision in the holidays for it. He'll either pass or he won't and to be honest, if he can't pass the 11+ without tutoring and revision then I don't think he'll do well in a grammar school.

I've had 4 kids through one and taught in them.

That's a tough one. We don't live in a grammar school county thankfully so haven't had any experience of this but one of our DCs friends from primary school was put forward by his parents to sit a private school entrance exam in year 6 for a private grammar school for year 7.

His sister was a few years older & was attending and both his parents had had private secondary schooling too. It was something they really wanted for him but he refused.

He was certainly clever enough to pass (he especially excelled in maths) but he told them he didn't want to do it, was happy to go to the local secondary school with his friends & that was that.

They tried everything to get him to sit the exam, bribery, shouting, threats etc but he carried on refusing. He was 10 at the time but knew his own mind. In the end he told them that if they made him go to the exam he would refuse to even pick up the pencil so he would definitely fail.

In the end he didn't end up sitting it, went to the local secondary & got fantastic gcses (8s & 9s across the board). He was very happy there and doesn't regret his decision at all. His parents still aren't happy about it but they couldn't do anything about it as he refused to do the exam.

To have refused to do what your parents insisted was the best thing for your future must have been VERY difficult for him and he was only 10 but he was resolute and knew his own mind.

It worked out well for him, he's now off to uni with 3 A grade a levels from the local sixth form.

I think what I'm trying to say is that sometimes parents don't know best & they do have to listen to their kids. I'm not sure if it will work out for your DC or not so I dont envy your position but I am pleased that we don't have any issues like that here as grammar school just isn't a thing.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, but once you've made your decision please don't go back over it again and again as no good will ever come from it.

11+ tutor here - lots of children have a last minute wobble. Give him a break for a couple of days and then get him onto the CGP 10 minute tests. If your tutor is worth their salt they should have already subscribed him to an 11+ practice account on CGP which has 100s of revision exercises and activities. I also subscribe my students to Education Quizzes and organise a mock. At this late stage he's not going to learn any new content and should only really be working on timings and technique.

lol, or he wants to sit and binge on youtube like most of his friends who are going to the failing comp

There's not long to go now. Give him study for 1 hour in the am and 1 hour in the pm then promise him a reward at the end.

(But yes, he should definitely have a crack at the test. Nothing at all to lose.)

I'm preparing my dd for the 11+ in September, but as low pressure as I can get away with really. There are other really good schools in the area, this one she wants to attend because of their reputation in STEM (she wants to be an engineer also), but there are so many factors outside our control that I couldn't bring myself to put too much pressure on her for this. We're not in the catchment, so even if she passes she won't be high on the priority list. What will be will be, is our motto. And no more than a half hour of revision/practice each day.

Absolutely. I stand with you OP. My DS was a clever clog and went to a primary school full of people who just weren't on his level. They weren't SEN, just not very bright. To the point that the school had to lie and cheat in the Year 6 SATS.

He definitely would have been held back had he gone to the local secondary.

Bloody hell the state of this comment. I hope you're on the windup, I really do.

Well it’s not the same in my area.

Well there is one point I disagree with there. To me it's one of the boldest teacher lies of all time that new contents is not learnt at the last minute.

For students with a strong memory, they can learn encyclopedic volumes of things at the last minute and apply them. I always did - the number of exams I did well in thanks to new knowledge acquired up to minutes before walking into the exam room is tremendous.
I was a last minute crammer and could just not get into slow and steady. So many people are like that, teachers are just loathed to admit it.

Thank you for all the balanced replies, it’s helping. He does have rewards - money to spend on gaming every week when he gets his revision done, which is what he said he’d like - and we’re doing plenty of nice things and chilling in the week too. I don’t really want to stop the revision, as I know his friends are keeping up with it, it’s for a few short weeks and we’re trying to work smart and focus on the things he’s less naturally good at. I think the advice on easing up for a bit and giving him some space is good. We’re off camping next week (and not taking any work with us) so hopefully that will help.

Well yeah, he most likely does.

But my point is that summers are only going to get more intense in terms of studying if he goes to the grammar. I'm not saying he shouldn't take the test, just that it's worth thinking about whether he's going to cope with this level of work long-term - because lots of children don't.

There are often threads on here about kids who were pushed into grammar schools and who couldn't cope with the workload, despite being intelligent and quick to learn.

Not for 10 year olds. If they've been properly prepared they really shouldn't be learning anything new now, that's silly I'm afraid.

I didn’t go to grammar school myself but my dad did and he has always said it made him. He went on to become a vet and has just retired after a very successful career. He puts it all down to having the opportunities he did at grammar school.

DS had the attitude that I can't pass if I don't do it and let's see what happens. We had no idea if he would pass even though doing well at school. We had an online group tutor for an hour a week in year 5. The tutor said to back off and give the kids a good break in the holidays. He told that to the kids and parents.

I think it did DS a world of good to have a proper break, we didn't have much of a holiday budget but had a last minute UK seaside break which he was thrilled with. The kids who had been made to study and forego holidays etc looked done in by September. Even two weeks completely free of anything related to the 11+ would be great for your DS and help him feel recharged and refreshed.

Because of course you would have in depth knowledge of the academic ability of every other child in your child's class
Such a shame your little precious had to spend their primary year's with a bunch off "thickos"🙄🙄

Don’t you think he’s being a normal 10 year old wanting to play over the summer holidays?

A week off while camping will help him have a break.
Perhaps a calendar on the wall that he can mark each week off to show he is nearly done

But my point is that summers are only going to get more intense in terms of studying if he goes to the grammar.

I really don't think that's true. Most school years in secondary have nothing that they have to do in the summer holidays.

Could you compromise and allow a two week break from study?

I feel very strongly that kids shouldn't be coached to get in to grammar schools. If their abilities are that borderline that they need coaching to pass the 11 plus, they're going to struggle once there. I also think the summer holiday should be just that - a holiday, away from the usual rushed routines.
Why don't you give him a break from the pressure, and have a conversation about his options. It's important he feels listened to.
FWIW, the comp may not be as terrible as you think. I had one grammar school girl and one comp girl. Both schools had advantages and disadvantages. With home support they both did really well and went on to Russell Gp unis.

Instead of doing loads of revision (which if he is where you say he is, he surely doesn't need), can you get him doing some of the 10 minute tests you can get? These really prepare you for the style of test and technique (ie not spending ages on a question if stuck and marking the paper for questions you are skipping)
That way he is still getting some relevant practice, but he can't really complain about a few ten minute tests. Start of with a few a week and near the time maybe do a daily one.
I really think test technique is important and might make him feel more confident about doing it.

Sounds more like he is just scared he won't pass. I would just tell him it is non negotiable. If he passes - great. If he doesn't, he will still have benefitted from some 1.1 tuition. How much holiday work and tuition is he doing?

God, there are some vile comments on this thread. Including the Mumsnet staple of not being able to write the word "comprehensive" without the prefix "failing". Unless it's the other prefix "leafy".

Does he want to go to the grammar school? I live in a grammar school area and dc and her friends bought into it through listening to others and doing open days. Even with them buying into it, there was still times they didn't want to do the work over the summer. I don't think you can force a child to learn.