To find it really, really hard how much screen my teen wants

[Guthealth]

13, nearly 14, year old DS wants to get up, watch some TV/do some games. I then, by giving up my time and work manage to cajole him to do stuff - we've taken day trips, done sports, he's seen friends etc - but the moment he's back, he wants to hop onto his game device again. Then, we get him off, encourage him to do other things - read books, write, go to the park with friends, we've just started doing jigsaws as a family, and we never have any devices at dinner and we always eat together - but then he wants to round off EVERY evening by sitting in front of the TV and watching an hour or two of his favourite show. Often DH sits with him.

I realise writing it down it sounds like balance, but it's really really hard work achieving that and it's often not that balanced IMO. There are a lot of hours in a holiday day and I feel depressed by his draw to the screen. I know he's not alone.

But I don't know what else I can do. We already control his gaming time - 2.5/3 hours a day in the holiday (which apparently is waaaaaay lower than all his mates). I have a time limit on his phone. He never takes it into his room.

I just feel like I'm mega controlling and I hate that - but he is simply unable to self-regulate.

I also get its his holiday and this is the world he's in.

Sorry, I don't even know what the question is. I'm just venting as I already bore the hell out of DH with this stuff (who's on my page, just a bit more relaxed than me)

No idea why folk are being so mean OP. Family jigsaws sound lovely! And it sounds like you are doing a great job of putting boundaries in place around screen time and he is actually to an extent adhering to them which is also great. Expecting him to like it is probably asking a bit much! Teenagers are designed to rebel. He won’t be like this forever.

I don't think you need to chill out at all. I just think you have came to the wrong place to ask the question.

We live in this completely abnormal society where people think it's normal for teenagers to spend all day long playing computer games and sitting on social media. You are right to be concerned and I would urge you to continue doing what you're doing. Your son will thank you for it when he is an adult.

My own DC are younger but we don't have iPads and we try limit tv. We do lots of books, jigsaws and board games and I fully intend to keep that going even when they are teenagers. The posters who are ridiculing you for a family jigsaw night are sad and pathetic. Unfortunately you find very often that most parents know how damaging screens are for children but they simply can't be bothered doing anything about it because it makes their life easier.

There will be no smart phones or social media in my house until they are 16. I work in CAMHS and I am utterly appalled by the number of young people I encounter who can barely function in normal life. Have you read the book "The Anxious generation" by Jonathan Haidt? Have a listen to a few of the podcasts he has done. It will solidify in your mind that you are doing the right thing and should continue on this path, even when it's difficult.

ADHD is a complete by product of the insane levels of screen time that children are exposed too. However it's easier for parents to pay for a diagnosis and medication than it is for them to face facts, get their kids of screens and actually spend some bloody time with them.

So my ds get a couple hours when we get up. Then we do something together as a family. Then he gets a couple more mores then tea, and a bit of tv before bed.

I'd say 2 hours gaming
An hour or 2 of iPad
And a couple hours of tv.

Out of a 13 hour day .

On a school day that drops down to around a hour of gaming, half hour ipad and and hour or so tv

I honestly think it's too much and you should encourage him to do something else. As soon as he wakes is terrible. Maybe say x hours after 4pm or something. It's not healthy

OP this all sounds normal and I share your anxiety about it all. I think your child has a decent balance. Good luck with everything, these are uncharted waters.

What we see: teens being zombies in front of a screen and not moving for hours.

What my 14yo does: chats to mates, watches shows, writes coding, plays games, discusses games, does homework, reads about new games or games strategies...and other things I look blankly at him when he explains

This must be very dependent on the child then. My 14 year old is the same but he definitely doesn't chat (has no friends/contacts), refuses to try to learn to code, never does homework nor reads about games. He turns into a mindless zombie and over the holidays his behaviour has got steadily worse and more aggressive.

He also complained "everyone is allowed to control their own screen time" except him and so we let him have free access these holidays, with a gaming limit of 2 hours. Instead of going out to play with the neighbours or his sister or doing anything when his device is charging he lies on his bed or sofa staring at the wall waiting until it has enough charge again. He refuses to help out with chores. Doesn't want to go out on trips.

He has until the weekend and we're re-installing limits and passcodes.

That's HALF of his day spent on screens

I would do it today. That is so mentally and emotionally unhealthy but unfortunately all too common these days. So common that most Mumsnetters just consider it the norm.

I think the main thing is can you get him off his screen without it turning into a major thing?

Woah that seems an overaction to what I read as a reasonable response. Dial back your aggression!

FWIW I think it sounds like a good mix of screen time and everything else, you're not going to get home way from the screen.

There is absolutely no need for that response really is there. You are the rude one.

All of your replies are rude in fact. You shouldn’t come in here if you are not going to accept what people are telling you.

If you want to have a relationship with your son as he gets older you need to back off. He will be going to Uni in four years. Will he be allowed his phone in his bedroom there?

So, the poster telling the OP that (re jigsaws) she couldn’t think of anything more boring isn’t rude?

Yeah it's a bit rude some kids love jigsaws

Yeah, the poster was really rubbishing the OP’s choices of family activities - Why do some people get to be rude and disrespectful but when an OP pushes back, the response is she’s aggressive

I agree with this too.

I honestly think we're already starting to see the consequences of endless screen time already. Mental health is at an all time low and I can't help thinking that it's a response to a permanently connected society. The games and apps are designed to be highly addictive. I think parents are in an increasingly difficult situation, trying to balance their children's health against the necessity of using the Internet and modern devices.

This conversation was starting when my children were young teens, and smartphones weren't in existence then, or certainly not mainstream. As parents, we were trying to get our heads around all of it ourselves, while being warned of dangers we didn't fully understand.

The use of this technology has swept over all our lives whether we like it or not. It is impacting our heath and that of our children, and as always parents who 'allow' this level of addiction are criticised, but it's bigger than any of us and impossible to stop, I think.

Unlike drugs/alcohol/ smoking, it's almost impossible to go cold turkey. It's more like a food addiction where you're re fuelling the addiction every time you use it. It's hard enough for most adults to limit their own gaming/scrolling/SM use, let alone young people who's brains are still developing.

I don't know what the answer is, and personally I applaud you @Guthealth for trying.

I don't want to be harsh, but you should be really concerned if your child has no friends. Screen time will only make this worse and further retard his social skills. Can you join him up to some clubs or something?

I'm another teacher thanking those parents who are limiting screen time for their efforts. I do appreciate there are nuances and that some screen addicted teens will use their computing and gaming skills to become successful and well rounded adults but I believe tik tok is hugely damaging to attention spans and this really shows in the classroom

I also think parents are in an impossible situation. Limiting gaming and phone use now has social consequences and no one wants their dc left behind socially

Absolutely! I don't use tik tok - my own sm use is limited to MN, but I have recently become aware that I am also losing my attention span. And I'm middle aged.
The internet is such a good tool but it is damaging many of us too I think.
I spoke to an 18 year old friend the other day who said she struggles to imagine life before social media. She, fortunately, is into horse riding and competing, so is out of the house a lot and is capable of decent conversation. Even so, everything she does is documented online, and she's often found skulking in the tack room on her phone when everyone else is ready to ride.

And now I'm going to turn off my smartphone and do some gardening 😂

i think you are right to be concerned. It’s all very well saying it’s the world we live in now, however, the creators like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Evan Speigel were very watchful with their own children.

and that’s before the short videos Tik Tok and YouTube shorts which are basically programming minds for a dopamine hit every 3 minutes. Something we keep an eye on with youngest.

personal experience with an older teen is they were totally addicted to gaming a few years ago. If they’d been creating (ie coding) not just being a (very dedicated) user, I wouldn’t have had as much issue with it. But they were playing first person shooter games in their bedroom continually and it was impacting their behaviour and personality. Became quite aggressive. We took the consoles out of bedrooms into a communal room and we put limits on. We basically broke the addiction. he actually started reading and now does that as well as changed his study habits completely. He does still game, but it is more as part of an overall life. And unfortunately he’s still not over everything eg I think he was using as a crutch instead of real world friendships and that’s going to take a while to recover from.

I’ve just ordered the Anxious Generation.

My 14 year old hasn't done anything with me this past week.

She's always on her phone. I thought that was normal?

Yes you are being incredibly controlling , and family jigsaw time with a 13/14 year old is the most bizarre thing I have ever read re teen parenting.

Just her opinion as an adult herself. Not allowed to voice opinions anymore?