tto think it should be illegal to travel abroad for anonymous egg/sperm donation?

[ZoeCM]

If the government can ban people from travelling outside the UK for FGM, why can't they ban this? It's absolutely appalling that clinics will destroy all records of a child's biological parent in this day and age. Yes, the child can potentially trace their parents through companies such as AncestryDNA, but there's no guarantee they'll be successful. It's a massive abuse of power.

Anonymous donation is all about what's best for the recipients and the donor, never the child. AIBU to think it should be illegal to travel abroad for this purpose?

She says pretty clearly that she tried own egg IVF which failed and then couldn’t afford known donor IVF in the UK. Not that she wasn’t bothered . There’s no need to be so nasty.

I agree with you 100%. I have one more round with my own eggs in September then we are looking at Spain for DE IVF if that fails. While I’m lucky enough to have two friends who offered to be known donors, my clinic won’t accept due to their ages. I know two donor conceived people, neither have ever been bothered and just view the donation as a gift given to their parents as part of a necessary medical procedure.

That is much clearer, I think where you went wrong was instead of focusing on why the means is morally dubious, you generated implausible terrifying ends.

If you are a parent whose children are adopted or donor conceived, you have no idea how your child will feel when they are older.
Honestly, how difficult is that to understand?

If your child is naturally conceived you have no idea how they will feel about your choice to have them when you did and your life choices that impact them.

My good friend was born to a sixteen year old who refused a termination. While she is grateful to be alive, her mums choices guaranteed her a fairly difficult life that she is recovering from in her thirties.

@adviceneeded1990 good luck. Feel free to message me if you have any questions. There is plenty of support on Mumsnet in the donor conception forum.

I did this twice. Ask me anything and I'll give you an honest response!

But make it illegal? Really: what would you do?

Quite. This would be the issue I would have, how would it be enforced. In Ireland when abortion was illegal many women travelled to the UK for terminations. There was a legal case in the 90s called (the X case) when a teenager who had been raped was refused the freedom to travel by the courts because she was travelling for an abortion. It rocked the nation and ultimately led to a referendum which legislated for the right for women to travel for a termination, but before the change in legislation it highlighted to many women the control the state could have on their freedoms. It is not a path I would recommend going down.

Link below if you want further information on it

https://www.thejournal.ie/twenty-years-on-a-timeline-of-the-x-case-347359-Feb2012/

I don’t really think the ‘it’s impractical’ argument really washes. It’s reminiscent of the ‘genital checks at the door’ argument about allowing men into women’s single sex spaces.

In Sweden they made it illegal to purchase sex. Obviously all the usual arguments were trotted out against it. But a fair point was made “What about men going abroad as sex tourists? You are just burdening others with Swedish men?”, so they made it illegal for Swedish men to purchase sex outside Sweden too.

How would they enforce such a law?

Firstly, laws act as a deterrent, so if something is made illegal, law abiding citizens won’t do it because it is illegal, so that greatly reduces the incidence.

Secondly, there are all sorts of ways of tracking criminal activities abroad, intelligence about where the centres are, if there’s a sting in another country the international police will cooperate, etc.

The practicalities aren’t really what we, arguing here, need to concern ourselves with.

I completely agree with you OP. Anonymous sperm and egg donation is repugnant. I speak as a donor-conceived person who found out at age 44. The comparison to FGM is unfortunate as it seems to have slightly derailed the thread.
As to the previous posters that said they went abroad as costs too high in the UK, shame on you. Your desire to have a child should not have trumped your child's right to know its biological heritage.

I don't see how this is relevant.

This is the type of article I read:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5034383/

Please, please before you do this look into the views of doner conceived people more widely. Once it is done, it is done and your child will not have the option of knowing their biological family. They might not mind but lots of research shows that many do. Once you have the child you would do anything to spare them a minute of pain and deciding on such an option because it is cheaper could well be a cause of lifetime regret for you and them.

I think it’s another “The low bar has been set by this unfortunate example so all is fair game for everyone else to follow” argument.

Genetic family, not biological family.

If it bothers you so much though I’m happy to accept either an egg donation or £7500 so I can go known donor route here. I’m sure many others in my unfortunate position would also appreciate your help.

I’m sorry for your pain, which is palpable. Your viewpoint and experience are relevant and you are entitled to express them, but they do not reflect the full range of views or experiences and other people feel differently. There have been posts to that effect on this thread.

It is not a parent’s job to shield their child from all pain in life and you would be mistaken if you thought all donor conceived people would wish they had never been born. Your experience is your experience and not universal. So no shame on me, thank-you very much. You should respect other people’s opinions and experiences in the same way you wish your own to be.

This. The ethics of anonymous donation is complex and on balance I agree that in my view it isn’t ideal, but you suggestion it’s comparable to FGM, and that women should be criminalised for seeking treatment that’s perfectly legal elsewhere is both ridiculous and abhorrent.

I think it's appalling to bring up FGM in this context, to make a point about fertility treatments.

I agree with you that donor conceived people should have protected rights, but this is a vile comparison.

Not sure many donors are that anonymous today anyway with the ancestry sites and DNA testing. It’s not always straightforward but increasingly people are finding unknown genetic ancestors and other genetic relatives this way.

YABU. What’s to stop a woman going to a nightclub, picking up a bloke and shagging him when she’s ovulating with the intent of getting pregnant? I don’t see any difference really. You can’t police people.

Also finding out at 44 is devastating and I totally understand why you are against it looking at that information. Adopted people and donor conceived people should be told as early as possible, blending it into the fabric of their story, to reduce the chance of trauma later in life. Had you known your origin story from birth you might have felt differently. Maybe not. But as the poster above has said, no one is reflective of everyone’s views, so all people can do is take account of a wide range of views and make the best decision for them and their future children.

💐

I think it is very hard for people to see what you are saying if they have chosen this.

I hope other countries will catch up with us ethically and stop donors being anonymous

Agree totally with this. Finding out at 44 must have been very difficult. It is advised now to tell children in age-appropriate ways from a very early age and this can make a huge difference to how those children will feel.

Please bear in mind that donor conceived people who are unhappy about being donor conceived (anonymously or not) tend to be very vocal- in internet forums and in donor conception communities. That doesn't mean that they are in the majority or that are representative of most donor conceived people. Many are happy, well adjusted people who have known their whole lives how they came about. They do not oppose the practice or resent what their parents did. Some are interested in finding their donor, others are not. There are many different opinions, no one way of looking at it is right.