tto think it should be illegal to travel abroad for anonymous egg/sperm donation?

[ZoeCM]

If the government can ban people from travelling outside the UK for FGM, why can't they ban this? It's absolutely appalling that clinics will destroy all records of a child's biological parent in this day and age. Yes, the child can potentially trace their parents through companies such as AncestryDNA, but there's no guarantee they'll be successful. It's a massive abuse of power.

Anonymous donation is all about what's best for the recipients and the donor, never the child. AIBU to think it should be illegal to travel abroad for this purpose?

what a vile comparison this is to fgm.

^ It's not as bad as FGM, but it's still extremely unethical. My point is that if the government can stop people from travelling outside the UK for that purpose, why not for this?

It’s nowhere near the same level as FGM.

I know women who have no idea who their child’s father is, how is this any different? Should the government make one night stands illegal too? Or make it illegal not to take the morning after pill after one?

But by that logic, we as may just legalise anonymous donation in the UK as well. Once you involve outside agencies in conception, there needs to be some sort of ethical regulations. Otherwise, clinics could just decide they're going to keep a couple's embryos for research instead of transferring them, and justify it with "Well, people lie all the time."

How does anyone find out that someone's gone abroad for FGM?

You've got a bee in your bonnet about something, but I can't tell what because there's no logic in what you've posted, or much thought actually.

Sperm donation undeniably raises issues. Going abroad for it has nothing to do with it. And it can't be policed. Or a ban against it forced. What is your actual problem?

What does any of this have to do with FGM?

@ZoeCM

you lost me at likening it to FGM

They don’t, medical examination will confirmed it has happened, but not where it took place.

I don't think it's the same logic.

Falling pregnant and having a child is biologically normal. Laceration of the genitals, especially when it removes functionality, is most emphatically not.

Someone could go away from their home area for a series of ONS during the fertile period, and not know who the father is, and quite possibly have no means whatsoever of establishing that. That cannot really be subject to any ban that is in any shape or form workable.

So should clinics be different?

Well in UK, through a clinic, there are legal protections for both donor and recipient (donor cannot be made to pay CMS, recipient knows the father can never acquire PR) and I think those are well worth having.

The connection to FGM is that it's not only illegal in the UK, it's illegal to travel outside the UK to do it. The sample should apply anonymous gamete donation.

My problem is that it's horrific that any government allows this.

I have DE twins from an anonymous donor. I travelled abroad because I could not afford the cost of treatment in this country.

Your comparison to FGM is absolutely vile.

Why exactly does anonymous donation horrify you so much?

Anonymous donation abroad is not a choice I would personally opt for (and, indeed, wasn't the choice I made when pursuing donor conception) but this is not remotely workable. Certainly, clinics should work to legal and ethical standards but the specifics vary by country and you can hardly expect clinics to uphold a completely different set of laws to the framework they work within, just because someone from the UK shows up for treatment.

Also, it's all very well saying this shouldn't be legal, but how would you propose proving it had happened? Mandatory DNA testing of all parents at birth to check it matched their child's?

I agree. I think people shouldn’t be able to return to the uk with babies conceived by illegal practises in the UK - eg- commercial surrogacy.

What will you do about people who get pg and have no idea who the father is or his to contact him? “Some one night stand I met in a night club “?

Should they be somehow subjected to some legal process? Forced to abort perhaps?

Your FGM analogy is outrageous. Hacking off women’s genitals is illegal in this country and it is illegal for anyone to cause this to happen to a UK citizen (a child). Getting pregnant is not illegal

I am not saying it is ideal that children have no way to trace their biological father’s but criminalising women is not the way to address that

What an asinine question.

That's a false connection.

The UK has outlawed the practice of FGM, whether conducted here or anywhere, because it's an infringement of one or more universally (except for the statistically extremely small communities which still practice it, and which are under international pressure to outlaw it) human rights.

Sperm donation doesn't infringe human rights. Anonymous sperm donation isn't universally accepted as an infringement of human rights (ie of the unborn child).

There's no doubt that anonymous sperm donation can cause moral and practical problems. But it's extremely far from being a universally accepted infringement of human rights, such that the ICJ (for example) might enforce it.

More importantly, there's no way it could ever be enforced. And, just wait until someone pitches up with a story of a child born of a drunken ONS in Ibiza: what's the difference there?

You can't regulate human behaviour entirely. Being outraged that the British govt isn't outlawing this is whistling in the wind.

wait until someone pitches up with a story of a child born of a drunken ONS in Ibiza: what's the difference there?

No conspiracy to deprive a child of their biological heritage, I would have thought.

How about the lack of sperm and egg donors in the UK due to the law of a conceived child having the option of making contact in the future.

Just because you want to give others the gift of a baby doesn't automatically mean you want a knock on your door in 20 years time.

Complete anonymity could be the reason why other countries have an abundance of willing donors.

But that's all about what's best for the donor and the recipient. The child's right hasn't been taken into account at all.

That does not take the child’s rights into account at all.

I mean, you going to prevent people going on a jolly to Ibiza or benidorm, having a drunken one night stand and forgetting their name and getting pregnant? Because really what is the difference? Or going out in any place in UK and doing the same? Unless you want to legally mandate every human must be DNA tested at birth and parentage confirmed against the database, not being sure on parentage is a tale as old as time and will continue to be so.

Not on the same level as FGM.

I know a child who was conceived this way, double anonymous donor. I think that would fuck with my head as an adult - having zero idea of my heritage (except the large country the parent went abroad to), hopefully it won't with this child.

Do you have donor conceived children @ZoeCM or are you a donor conceived child yourself perhaps?