Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Admitting to killing his sister and getting away with it

444 replies

SouthernFashionista · 23/07/2024 22:29

I could weep after reading this. But mostly I’m just angry. How in gods name has this happened? I know some don’t like DM links but the facts are that a man punched his sister in the head, killing her, and admitted doing so yet will face no charges. Sickening.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13664507/Girl-11-died-punched-heat-moment-half-brother-not-face-charges.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Harmonypus · 26/07/2024 07:23

Clearly yet another case of the family believing the sick bastard son being male, is far more important/valuable than the life of a mere girl.
This absolutely sickens me.
NO man should be able to get away with attacking ANY female, let alone a child.
This monster should be locked up and the key permanently lost!

Papergirl1968 · 26/07/2024 08:49

Sickening to see the photo of the brother smirking outside the court yesterday, and in another pic accompanied by the mother.
I think the inquest is due to conclude today.

WillimNot · 26/07/2024 10:29

Papergirl1968 · 26/07/2024 08:49

Sickening to see the photo of the brother smirking outside the court yesterday, and in another pic accompanied by the mother.
I think the inquest is due to conclude today.

He's going to smirk as he's literally gotten away with at the very least manslaughter.

It's becoming a constant occurrence that females are not protected. Look at this whole Manchester airport situation, lots of sensationalism surrounding the men being kicked (although not one of them has bruising or swelling) yet the media seems to have forgotten that a female officer had her nose broken as one of those thugs punched her. I've seen one of the videos from another angle and you can see her blood all over the floor yet she is still trying to help the other officers.

We just don't count anymore do we?

prh47bridge · 26/07/2024 10:32

The inquest is due to conclude today.

It is possible that evidence will emerge today that changes things but, on the evidence so far, it is clear that, for all the outrage on here and being whipped up by the Daily Mail, the CPS is correct not to charge him as any attempt to prosecute him for manslaughter would result in a not guilty verdict. And no, that isn't because girls' lives don't matter. It is because the evidence does not get anywhere near showing beyond reasonable doubt that anything he did led to or contributed to her death.

Papergirl1968 · 26/07/2024 11:54

But it’s for a jury to decide if he’s guilty - of anything - beyond reasonable doubt, not the CPS. They only have to decide if there’s enough evidence to charge him
with manslaughter or another offence, and from what I’ve read about the medical evidence so far, there is.

Firethehorse · 26/07/2024 12:48

diktat · 24/07/2024 09:31

The point is people using the killing of a little girl to point score against Muslims.

That is absolutely not true. You are desperately trying to stop discussion on a forum. I suggest you leave if discussion upsets you.

prh47bridge · 26/07/2024 13:03

Papergirl1968 · 26/07/2024 11:54

But it’s for a jury to decide if he’s guilty - of anything - beyond reasonable doubt, not the CPS. They only have to decide if there’s enough evidence to charge him
with manslaughter or another offence, and from what I’ve read about the medical evidence so far, there is.

The CPS have to decide if there is a realistic chance of conviction. The medical evidence is clear that Falaq had a condition that could have caused the bleed into her brain at any time. Whilst this could have been triggered by physical trauma, it could also have happened without any trauma. Indeed, if the diagnosis of AVM is correct, there is only anecdotal evidence that physical trauma can cause the blood vessels involved to rupture, not scientific proof.

The prosecution needs to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt. They therefore only have a realistic chance of getting a conviction if the medical evidence is clear that something the brother did caused the bleed. Faced with medical evidence that the brother might have caused it, but it is at least equally likely that her death is totally unconnected to anything he did, there is no realistic chance of conviction. The CPS is therefore correct - he should not be charged.

If you think everyone should be charged when there is some evidence even when there is no realistic chance of conviction, the courts would be even more clogged up than they already are.

OneTC · 26/07/2024 13:22

Papergirl1968 · 26/07/2024 11:54

But it’s for a jury to decide if he’s guilty - of anything - beyond reasonable doubt, not the CPS. They only have to decide if there’s enough evidence to charge him
with manslaughter or another offence, and from what I’ve read about the medical evidence so far, there is.

And this is why an 83% conviction rate is a problem. A significant chunk never goes to jury. They don't prosecute cases they might possibly lose.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/met-police-sir-mark-rowley-crown-prosecution-service-cps-cherry-picking-easy-cases-b1082022.html?trk=feed-detail_main-feed-card_feed-article-content

Met chief accuses CPS of failing victims by ‘cherry-picking easy cases’

‘We need to target difficult cases and let juries not lawyers decide’, Sir Mark Rowley said

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/met-police-sir-mark-rowley-crown-prosecution-service-cps-cherry-picking-easy-cases-b1082022.html?trk=feed-detail_main-feed-card_feed-article-content

prh47bridge · 26/07/2024 15:19

OneTC · 26/07/2024 13:22

And this is why an 83% conviction rate is a problem. A significant chunk never goes to jury. They don't prosecute cases they might possibly lose.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/met-police-sir-mark-rowley-crown-prosecution-service-cps-cherry-picking-easy-cases-b1082022.html?trk=feed-detail_main-feed-card_feed-article-content

I agree that sometimes the CPS errs on the side of caution. However, this isn't a case they might possibly lose. This is a case they would definitely lose.

SouthernFashionista · 26/07/2024 17:45

Mexicansky · 25/07/2024 19:55

I find this worrying. You are all making decisions on a prosecution after reading an article in the daily Mail. Do you think the media always get it right and report the full facts?
do you not think the CPS might have had access to a full file of evidence and more than the daily mail print?

it’s amazing how quick people are to condemn decisions made when they have no idea what the evidence is.

What are you on about? This sick creature confessed to hitting this little girl square on the head. She died. He killed her. And now we hear today that the family should move on. It’s disgusting. And I am just as disgusted that there isn’t a national outcry over this beautiful girl’s murder.

OP posts:
pilates · 26/07/2024 17:56

You know if you punch someone in the head there is a strong chance of brain damage or death. Words fail. 😢

prh47bridge · 26/07/2024 18:08

SouthernFashionista · 26/07/2024 17:45

What are you on about? This sick creature confessed to hitting this little girl square on the head. She died. He killed her. And now we hear today that the family should move on. It’s disgusting. And I am just as disgusted that there isn’t a national outcry over this beautiful girl’s murder.

To say yet again, the medical evidence suggests he did not kill her.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/07/2024 18:19

That was an interesting article @OneTC, and since many police are said to have preferred the days when they decided whether to prosecute rather than the CPS, I guess it might be only natural for Sir Mark Rowley to feel as he does

Surely, though, if a case gets before a court, judges can direct juries to find someone not guilty? And if the evidence is considered insufficient wouldn't they do exactly that, meaning that the jury wouldn't get to decide the case anyway?

mirax · 26/07/2024 18:24

It is a given the family lied to exculpate the brother and the girlfriend refused to co-operate with the police too, so she is no angel. It is likely the brother had no intention of killing his sister but casual violence seems accepted in this family. The medical evidence is what has screwed up this case. Trauma led to an underlying condition being exacerbated. The trauma is undoubtedly from the blow to the head, would little Falaq have diedso soon if not for the blow? No one seems to want to answer this question and while the conclusion of the coroner is harsh towards the family, the case is not being referred back to the CPS. Shame. There must be consequences to hitting a little girl even if she has nothing more more than a bruise and is right as rain afterwards.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/girl-11-killed-indefensible-punch-29618832

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/girl-11-killed-indefensible-punch-29618832

prh47bridge · 26/07/2024 18:26

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/07/2024 18:19

That was an interesting article @OneTC, and since many police are said to have preferred the days when they decided whether to prosecute rather than the CPS, I guess it might be only natural for Sir Mark Rowley to feel as he does

Surely, though, if a case gets before a court, judges can direct juries to find someone not guilty? And if the evidence is considered insufficient wouldn't they do exactly that, meaning that the jury wouldn't get to decide the case anyway?

Yes, the judge can direct the jury to find the defendant not guilty, at which point the jury has no choice. The judge can also in some circumstances dismiss the case without any involvement by the jury.

If the CPS prosecute when there is no realistic chance of success, there will be significant wasted costs for the taxpayer - around £24k per trial. The accused is also likely to be out of pocket, possibly substantially, for having to defend themselves in a trial they were always bound to win.

VickyPollard25 · 26/07/2024 19:17

prh47bridge · 26/07/2024 00:50

In this case, the Daily Mail is going well beyond the bounds of anything I would regard as acceptable reporting. Yesterday, their headline described the brother as "smirking", which had absolutely nothing to do with the report underneath. Today their headline clearly and unambiguously sets out to deliberately misrepresent the evidence. The headline says, "'No doubt' punch thrown by older half-brother of 11-year-old girl in 'heat of the moment' caused her fatal brain injury, inquest hears", but that was not the evidence. The evidence was that a punch could have caused the fatal injury, not that it did. As with the doctors who gave evidence on Wednesday, the pathologists giving evidence on Thursday were clear that Falaq's death could have been entirely unrelated to anything her brother did.

Wake up to yourself. Why is a grown man forcing his way VIOLENTLY into a bathroom where an 11 year old girl is. Why is he punching her in the head? Why is he messaging his girlfriend confirming he did it? You’d be an apologist for the Nazis.

VickyPollard25 · 26/07/2024 19:21

SouthernFashionista · 26/07/2024 17:45

What are you on about? This sick creature confessed to hitting this little girl square on the head. She died. He killed her. And now we hear today that the family should move on. It’s disgusting. And I am just as disgusted that there isn’t a national outcry over this beautiful girl’s murder.

I’m with you @SouthernFashionista. ridiculous woke BS. Why is anyone jumping to this monster’s defence?!

Clearly the lives of women and girls is not important to some of these posters. More important to defend an adult who without a doubt assaulted an 11 year old girl.

DoreenonTill8 · 26/07/2024 19:32

Look just because he smashed his way into the bathroom where she'd locked herself, he punched her in the head, assaulted her while smashing the bathroom up.. how can any of it be his fault, poor put upon lamb..

prh47bridge · 26/07/2024 20:03

VickyPollard25 · 26/07/2024 19:17

Wake up to yourself. Why is a grown man forcing his way VIOLENTLY into a bathroom where an 11 year old girl is. Why is he punching her in the head? Why is he messaging his girlfriend confirming he did it? You’d be an apologist for the Nazis.

Wake up to what? I have not excused his behaviour. I have simply accurately reported the evidence. I'm sorry you don't like the evidence, but it is what it is and it clearly does not support a charge of manslaughter or murder. Child cruelty possibly, but nothing more.

VickyPollard25 · 26/07/2024 20:07

prh47bridge · 26/07/2024 20:03

Wake up to what? I have not excused his behaviour. I have simply accurately reported the evidence. I'm sorry you don't like the evidence, but it is what it is and it clearly does not support a charge of manslaughter or murder. Child cruelty possibly, but nothing more.

“Child cruelty possibly, but nothing more.” OK 🙄

DoreenonTill8 · 26/07/2024 20:14

VickyPollard25 · 26/07/2024 20:07

“Child cruelty possibly, but nothing more.” OK 🙄

Move along, nothing to question here....

SouthernFashionista · 26/07/2024 20:19

@prh47bridge you should be ashamed of yourself. You’re nothing more than an apologist for this monster. Revolting.

OP posts:
slammmer · 26/07/2024 20:37

prh47bridge · 26/07/2024 18:08

To say yet again, the medical evidence suggests he did not kill her.

There's no medical evidence to prove Lucy Letby's guilt of any crime - that didn't prevent her being locked up for the rest of her days.

ChishiyaBat · 26/07/2024 20:37

@prh47bridge Like child cruelty isn't bad enough?!
Fucking hell the amount of people who are rape/paedo/child abuse apologists never fails to shock me!

prh47bridge · 26/07/2024 20:40

VickyPollard25 · 26/07/2024 20:07

“Child cruelty possibly, but nothing more.” OK 🙄

You may not like it but, on the evidence presented, that is the only charge that stands any chance of sticking.

Swipe left for the next trending thread