I genuinely want pro-VAT people to answer these two questions

[Seenandheard]

(1) Do you realise that a private school child saves the tax payer/government thousands of pounds per year by not taking up a space in state school? Not to mention the space in the classroom/competition for places? (Do you care about this point or gloss over it in your minds?!)

(2) Do ypu realise that taxing education is illegal in the EU?

Yes or no to both points, please.

I do not want reams of uninformed angry opinions. I don't want this to turn into a multi page thread/bun fight. I just want to understand whether people realise these two points, really, truly understand them. Because it seems to me that there is a mentality of "they're getting a tax break" (WRONG) or "they're taking something away from my child" (WRONG) or "they can afford it so they can spread their wealth a bit" (I'm not going into the fact that my family spend more on taxes than Nordic countries, who have a far, far higher standard of living. We give so much, get almost nothing in return- but apparently we need to give more. More. More.)

I think my deep rooted anger here is to do with people's attitudes and uninformed opinions more than the policy itself. I need to know if people are aware of the facts.

Maybe they’ll tax people more not just other people which seems to go down well on mn, if it’s someone else paying

Or are you more likely not to be included in tax increases?

State school pupils are allocated funding of under £4000 per year
that is all that the state saves by them going elsewhere.

I didn't know that but, given the average school fees are £20k per year, the average fee-paying parent will now be contributing £4,000 to the public coffers. That's convenient 😃

You make an excellent point. People are too tied up in envy to care.

The VAT won’t impact me at all, because I can easily afford it. I’ll keep buying my children all the advantages and privileges I can afford, and that includes private school. I also use private healthcare. I am not from the UK and as a foreigner I have felt I shouldn’t take from the system because I can afford to pay my way and others need the free services more than I do. However, I never thought I’d see so much hatred towards people who do put in rather than taking out.

It is the people struggling to send their children to private school who will be impacted. And that is what is so unfair. Surely the best option for society is to make private school more accessible, not less?

VAT is a Value Added Tax - people pay this on non essential spending - ie private education.

Also (sadly) we aren't in the EU anymore so that's completely irrelevant.

I think it’s all to kick off soon when changes to pensions are introduced because Mumsnetters love the current tax advantages of pensions.

This!

We left the EU so that's completely irrelevant.

If you're so angry about it perhaps that's a sign you are struggling to afford it and should consider sending your child to a regular school (like the other 93% of the populace do). The majority of private school parents will be able to cover the increased cost

You get what you pay for. Why shouldn’t teachers be paid properly?

"We should be more like Finland."

I agree. Their private schools are state subsidised. Private schools are not allowed to profit from the basic element of education, and the state funds that part. I'd be more than happy to pay VAT on fees if the taxpayer was funding the basic element.

Only half the staff costs are for teaching staff.

It's not a matter of teacher's pay. It's that someone earlier claimed that 80% of private school income goes on staffing which, in this case at least, isn't true.

1. yes of course.
2. irrelevant And also I dont care.

It's not a tax on non essential spending. Cake and caviar are VAT free. I wouldn't say that caviar is an essential for living. On the other hand, toilet paper is standard rated. I don't think many would argue that toilet paper is non essential.

Same…. These posters can argue all they want until they are blue in the face… our children will still go to those lovely lovely schools, we will still continue our lovely lives and it won’t make any difference. Unsure why private school parents are giving them the airtime on here and asking their opinions as it’s irrelevant to them and to us. I don’t ask them where my next fancy holiday should be and they don’t ask us personal things about their lives.

They are 💯 correct that they don’t care and aren’t interested - I don’t want them to be or Asking them to be!

I do question thought wether, they’ve had hard lives to lead them to how angry they come across - chips on shoulders must come from somewhere 🤷‍♀️

I’m not getting into it. But im going to say it so you know that I’m giving you serfs my hard earned money. 😂

Once this gateway tax is up and running, I look forward to the outrage as it is inevitably extended to universities.

Who won’t be able to afford 20% VAT on university fees? Not the private school parents who have been shelling it out for years.

You can all think back to the glee you felt at this moment and regret your schadenfreude.

The best option for society is to scrap private schools and give everyone the same opportunities.

Given that those who have less well off parents, or go into less well paid jobs already pay more in graduate tax than better off students do...

@TheOriginalEmu

The best option for society is to scrap private schools and give everyone the same opportunities.

The best option is to stop the state system being a postcode lottery. The fact that some can access an excellent state school, but others are left to struggle with failing schools, is a disgrace. The best option is to concentrate on making the 93% of schools all equally great so that parents don't feel it necessary to spend a fortune on private schools. Concentrate on the 93%, not the 7%.

The largest elite schools spend less of their total expenditure on staffing because they spend a lot of money maintaining fancy buildings and facilities. That’s why they will be impacted less (and some may actually benefit) from this policy because they will be able to claim so much VAT back. But that’s a small group of private schools. Staffing is by far the biggest cost at most private schools.

I think the best thing we could do for society is to raise each state school to that of a private school so everyone has the same opportunity.

@Onetwothreefourfiveonce yes that will clearly work, just as soon as state schools can also bar any child not rich enough, clever enough or well behaved enough.

So here is data for another school. Staffing costs 8.9million, total expenditure 17million.

You may be correct, I have only sampled two schools, but in the absence of other evidence,,,

These threads are so depressing. I don’t believe that applying VAT to private school fees is ‘closing a loophole’. Education has always been VAT exempt and applying it against EU laws (notwithstanding Brexit this at least demonstrates the legitimacy of that approach).

Whether you agree with this policy or not, some of the gloating and glib remarks when faced with the real impact of the policy is shameless. Parents recounting stories of a SEND child or a child who has been mercilessly bullied in the state system but and will now have to leave the school that has become their safe haven and receiving no sympathy, just derision.

This is levelling down. It’s a race to the bottom. AND the really weird thing is that the outcome of all of this will just be to make private schools more elitist with less community outreach and fewer bursaries. So LESS opportunities for the less privileged. Why not have brought in more stringent and ambitious targets for the number of bursaries on offer and specific projects for community outreach instead? Labour should have demanded more from private schools - this, to me is a wasted opportunity.

Ideological, politics of division alive and well.