I genuinely want pro-VAT people to answer these two questions

[Seenandheard]

(1) Do you realise that a private school child saves the tax payer/government thousands of pounds per year by not taking up a space in state school? Not to mention the space in the classroom/competition for places? (Do you care about this point or gloss over it in your minds?!)

(2) Do ypu realise that taxing education is illegal in the EU?

Yes or no to both points, please.

I do not want reams of uninformed angry opinions. I don't want this to turn into a multi page thread/bun fight. I just want to understand whether people realise these two points, really, truly understand them. Because it seems to me that there is a mentality of "they're getting a tax break" (WRONG) or "they're taking something away from my child" (WRONG) or "they can afford it so they can spread their wealth a bit" (I'm not going into the fact that my family spend more on taxes than Nordic countries, who have a far, far higher standard of living. We give so much, get almost nothing in return- but apparently we need to give more. More. More.)

I think my deep rooted anger here is to do with people's attitudes and uninformed opinions more than the policy itself. I need to know if people are aware of the facts.

It won’t diminish education. It’s nothing to do with naivety or what have you, it’s all about how this may make parents pay more for the same education, but it won’t make education cost more for the schools.

The schools collect VAT from the customers, and then pass that on to the Treasury. The schools will actually make money off this because they can now keep back whatever VAT they pay for other goods and services up to the VAT they collect from parents.

Paying fees is not a “top up tax” any more than a private jet is a “top up tax” compared to flying economy.

I suppose just like other posters claiming to know that 93% of the population don't know or don't care about the policy. We're all making some 'educated' guesses.

“I do not want reams of uninformed angry opinions” - translated, ‘I send my kids to a private school and I don’t want any posts to disagree with me’

I have “googled” it. You’re still wrong. I’ve read the tax code on U.K.gov.
slightly better than magazine articles.

So why doesn't the government use my tax that has paid for a school place (which I haven't used) to improve the state system?

If private schools didn't exist (as some on this thread think they shouldn't), they'd have to find the money from somewhere else. What would they do then?

When you say state schools 'do not pay VAT', what do you mean? I've seen the stated a few times. I deal with VAT at work (local authority) but not to do with schools. I've assumed that maintained state schools pay input tax like everyone else, but it can be claimed back by the LA - but that might be a misunderstanding.

I am frustrated by the lack of knowledge and confusion about VAT and charitable status - particularly when I hear Labour MPs making mistakes while talking about the policy. It undermines any credibility the policy might have.

FWIW, I wouldn't use VAT on private edication. I'm opposed to private education but I don't think it should be subject to VAT. I'd look at other changes which affect the schools as a whole, rather than being passed on directly to individual parents.

Err they do. They’ve only been in power a couple of weeks and there was loads in the Kings Speech. They’ve made a great start with more in the first few days than the Tories did in 14 years.

Because we are one broke, bankrupt country. So everyone’s got to pay their fair share in everything. You pay fair share on income tax. You aren’t paying fair share on VAT. Simples.

@CoffeeCup14 yes, the LAs claim it back.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice because someone has decided it's now 'fair' to pay VAT on something that previously it wasn't. Nothing has changed about the product.

It's nonsense.

@TeenagersAngst We don't ask any of those businesses to absorb the VAT on behalf of the customer but Rachel Reeves seems to think private schools should be doing this. It's not clear (at least to me) why this is.

Businesses are free to choose how they deal with changes to pricing. If the private school accountants are struggling to come up with ideas here's some for free (and I won't even charge tax!):

Reduce profit margins
Reduce costs
Pass the extra on to consumers
Get additional revenue streams (charge extra for outsized parking spaces for the behemoth SUVs favoured by many of the parents?)
Whine incessantly

A combination of some or all of these will probably do the trick.

That's how all tax legislation is set. The Government of the day decides.

Yes, because everyone else has already been paying VAT for education above what the state provides for free for under 19s, except the wealthy who can afford the first class version of education.

Their profits from the satellite schools in foreign countries will more than offset the VAT costs. They could easily reduce fees by 20% so the new fee + VAT is about the same.

Yes, I'm aware of both of those things and v much in favour vat on private schools 🤗

There's enough state school places for everyone (might end up getting 4 As and going to Cambridge from a state school, like me 🤪)

I lived on the continent for 10 years and private school is a completely different proposition there, basically only for very religious/ultra rich ppl. The UK private education sector is a slick, efficient money-making machine that caters to the whole world. It can pay VAT 😉

HTH! Also I'm sure you understand, paying 20% VAT doesn't have to equal a 20% rise in fees, private schools are businesses and they can choose how much of that rise to pass on to you, the customer...

Well exactly. They could also increase the prices of the official school straw boaters, waistcoats and capes.

Private schools are businesses NOT a charity therefore should not enjoy charitable status - simples

Yes, but many areas, including education, are pretty fucked at the moment and it's time for privates to lose the cushy number they've been on for years in order to help make the country fairer.

If that costs some people a couple of grand extra a year I'm not going to cry about it.

Hoping they come for churches next.

If private schools raise fees significantly, it will be to do a bit of classist cleansing. They may feel that they have let in too many of questionable pedigree from less than salubrious backgrounds. Ofc, those newly excluded will feel the sting of it, and lose their claim to superiority over the rest of us but they will adapt.

Respectfully, if you think paying to go private will stop all those things happening you are deluded.

You’re basically asking them to
make people redundant. Nice!

Yeah that's exactly what's happened to the state sector for the last 14 years with all the cuts 🙃

That wasn't what I was referring to at all - by hardship, I simply meant financial struggle.

People have this weird idea that only the filthy rich can afford private education. That's simply not true. I know lots of middle income families, who can just about afford to send their kids to private school, who may be forced to take them out if this goes ahead.

For posters to claim not to care about those people is just plain nasty.