I genuinely want pro-VAT people to answer these two questions

[Seenandheard]

(1) Do you realise that a private school child saves the tax payer/government thousands of pounds per year by not taking up a space in state school? Not to mention the space in the classroom/competition for places? (Do you care about this point or gloss over it in your minds?!)

(2) Do ypu realise that taxing education is illegal in the EU?

Yes or no to both points, please.

I do not want reams of uninformed angry opinions. I don't want this to turn into a multi page thread/bun fight. I just want to understand whether people realise these two points, really, truly understand them. Because it seems to me that there is a mentality of "they're getting a tax break" (WRONG) or "they're taking something away from my child" (WRONG) or "they can afford it so they can spread their wealth a bit" (I'm not going into the fact that my family spend more on taxes than Nordic countries, who have a far, far higher standard of living. We give so much, get almost nothing in return- but apparently we need to give more. More. More.)

I think my deep rooted anger here is to do with people's attitudes and uninformed opinions more than the policy itself. I need to know if people are aware of the facts.

1. No. There's plenty of spaces. Bring them on.
2. We're not in Europe in that sense anymore. So it's irrelevant.
3. We don't care. Should have worked a bit harder, got a better job, maybe took in some ironing or whatever it is that you claim the people who could never afford even the registration fee for a private school should have done.
4. Just in case you didn't notice over the top of your puffed up sense of entitlement; we don't care.

Ha yourself. It’s bollocks

In the interests of factual accuracy I would like to point out that about half of private schools are charities.

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-05-16/HL279

Two key exemptions are staple food & children’s clothes. I think it is the fact that ‘luxury’ food is taxed (your kitkat 🙂), but not your staples (your digestive). However, once you look beyond food it is clear that most non-luxury products are VATable. Your oven, your coat, your washing machine …. Unlike in the US tax is not added separately it is just incorporated into the price we see in the store so we just don’t think about the fact it is added to most things.

why can’t we do both? Put vat on private schools and crack down on tax avoidance? You still don’t seem to understand that the private school debate isn’t about money/the tax raised, it’s about a fundamentally unfair system where a minority of children get a better chance at their future because their parents can afford to pay for it.

yes, it will take years to achieve, which is why we should start now.

home education is a choice, if you think your kid will end up better off at 16 after home education than state school then fair play.

I very rarely go to the doctors/hospital. I guess that makes me a hero of the people because I am saving YOU, the taxpayer, thousands of pounds by not taking up appointments. People who need to go to the doctors often should all bow down to me and my noble sacrifice

Universities arent.

And per my post earlier, supermarkets don’t charge VAT on most food, and charities do charge VAT on non-donated items.

it’s just nonsense to say that all businesses charge VAT

similarly it’s nonsense to say private schools are businesses when many/most are charities (and thus don’t have shareholders/ owners or anyone to pay profits to)

Still, why let facts gets in the way.

Fair.

That doesn’t change my point that VAT and charitable status are fundamentally different topics and conflating them, whilst politically useful, is a nonsense.

Quite a lot of private schools are registered charities, so it is possible that they can recover Gift Aid from the Government on donations made to them by philanthropists, alumni and the like - possibly via an associated charitable arm rather than the school itself.

I could be wrong - this is not something I have ever needed to look into in the course of my work (although I have previously worked in finance for charities, Gift Aid is not my area).

I’m not saying it could not, I’m saying it’s not a natural consequence, it’s not something has to follow, and it’s not related.

It’s perfectly feasible to add vat to school fees and not university fees. Any subsequent decisions can be made on university fees.

I second this. I was a private parent ( and state school, at different times). To the OP, yes I really truly understand point 1 and point 2. You condescending prick.

It’s clear -

I’m not asking you to care about VAT on private schools (bring it on makes very little difference to us and it really really isn’t something private school parents think or talk much about) Just like I don’t care about state schools . Like we literally don’t think about them- or care. You crack on with your life and we will ours. You don’t see private schools parents weighing in about state schools…. probably because we’re on our massive yachts with our generous holiday allowances .

But please gosh stop posting about VAT on private schools- it’s dull and boring. You’re asking people’s opinions who those in private schools don’t care about 🤷‍♀️ are you trying to change people’s minds- why?!! You don’t need to- you are not them, you lead your own life - why are you asking Janet who is on UC and wants to lift the 2 child benefit- her opinion on something that she has no influence over- I don’t ask them what colour my next Porsche should be or wether Fortnum and Mason is become a little too boujie for my liking.

1. Yes.
2. No, but the comparison is irrelevant because we are no longer in the EU.

Honestly, I don’t care about either of the above.

But they can have VAT on chocolate digestives, but not plain digestives. Pull the other one.

1)a)If you think a labour government is going to improve schools because a bunch of tory voters can't send their kids to private school anymore I don't think you are being realistic.
B) if you want people to improve state schools become a governor and start to ask the head questions about discipline, hours of homework a week and academic rigour.
C) Why do you think parents who used to send their kids to private schools will improve state schools?
D) you know labour politicians will continue to send their kids to super top state schools like Blair did.
E) if you think tory voting private school parents are so good at organising high achieving schools why would you vote for a labour party which will implement policies opposed by those parents you believe will drive improved results? Eg you think tory parents will improve schools so you vote labour? Logic seems wrong

1. yes, I understand it but I still believe it's entirely reasonable to remove the VAT exempt status. Private schools are a business. It's not compulsory to attend one, it's a choice.

2. yes I knew that but only because it's been banged on about on Mumsnet so much!

This country is so fuck up with morons. They got convinced that compulsory education is a luxury. What a joke is this new government. Quite frankly is an embarrassment as it is also not raising enough to warrant such decision. No other country leaders have ever done this.

Yep and yep.

Still firmly in favour of the policy.

Gosh. That’s interesting grammar!

Maybe have a coffee?

Peeing myself at this comment - it’s true though isn’t it ? They say to us all the time- we don’t care! We don’t care about your kids blah blah blah and rarely do we say it back- but it’s 💯 true!! And yeah we don’t care of their opinion- private schools will always be around, 20% isn’t that much for 2 kids in secondary it’s around 8k - but how these posters go on about it you’d think someone had destroyed our trust funds or squatted in our holiday homes or something. They think they have a small bit of power to their small lives and can use it over us- but nah we’re all good over here- you do you and concentrate on improving your own life rather than weighing in on something that as private school parents, we don’t really care about 🤷‍♀️

In the interests of factual accuracy I would like to point out that about half of private schools are charities.

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-05-16/HL279

And your point is….?

ALL supermarkets aren’t charities and they don’t charge VAT on most food

my point is that being a charity or not is basically irrelevant to the discussion

The wealthy will never use the state sector instead, so point 1 is irrelevant.

We left the EU, so are free to charge VAT on anything and at any rate.

Private schooling is luxury very few of us can afford, so as most luxuries are taxed, why shouldn't luxury schooling?

Some sympathy for those with SENs children, perhaps they'll be exemptions?

To me, this is just another example of the rich desperately hanging on to every penny they've got..... bit like that family (uk based i believe) who virtually imprisoned their workers and paid them a $ a day at their Swizz villa, did this despite being multi billionaires.

They are charities. Doh.