To say vanity sizes should be rolled back?

[amoreoamicizia]

I bought some vintage St. Michael shorts this weekend in a size 12 which fitted me perfectly. In current sizes I'm an 8 or sometimes- incredibly- a 6 (looking at you, Boden).

As flattering as it is to think of myself as a size 8, it's simply not the truth or a reflection of reality. A small size 12 does seem about right, as that was my size as a slim-ish teenager in the 90s.

Who is this vanity sizing really helping? Who does it serve? Isn't it about time clothing manufacturers were held to account and forced to roll back sizes to what they were in the early 00s, at least?

But how do you know which size to buy?!! That’s the point.
I was discussing this recently with friends. I find vanity sizing so annoying. I don’t care if I’m a bigger size, I just want it to be the same regardless of where I shop. I’m forever sending things back.

I have been a size 12 my whole adult life.
I am now 60.
My BMI is 22.
I can't believe people think somebody fitting a size 12 today is massive. No wonder people get eating disorders and I don't understand this vanity sizing you are all talking about!!

As long as there is an accurate size guide available I don't care what they call the sizes.

I saved (because it was a classic) the black velvet pencil skirt I wore when i was young. The label says size 12 "waist 24" and it is teeny tiny and would be a size 8 I reckon by today's measurements. There is no way on this earth I could ever get into it these days, I just keep it as it is a reminder that I once was young, slim and stylish! The thing i do remember is that most girls my age were that sort of size, I was average and measured 34", 24" 34" which was pretty standard then. These days I am a 14 but a 2024 version of a 14 which would be about an 18 in the days of my youth!

It's a stealth boast.

You cannot start a thread with a title like "Everyone is so fat and disgusting compared to me" as it would be taken down as you cannot be seen to be deliberately inciting hate or trying to cause upset to others.

So people just dress up their jibes in pretend problems.

It's constant across the forum.

I find it really helpful when shops have reviews where people can post photos with their height and what size they bought so I can compare myself.

I am tall and a big size.

What we need is consistent sizing end of. In some shops you could fit three different sizes in a skirt or trousers which doesn’t make any sense.

If you buy vintage op please readjust the size you buy. No need for a look how slim I am post on here.

I have lost weight because I'm ill and I'm having to buy lots of clothes, hence the frustration. I preferred myself before. You are wrong.

This wouldn't work, because

a) different garments have different amounts of ease, a boxy jacket would be a completely different size to a fitted top and that wouldn't really tell you how it is supposed to fit and it would be a nightmare to search for the right size online for different fits and shapes

b) different stores have different customer bases in mind and use different proportions accordingly so, say, Marks and Spencer would have completely different sizing to Topshop at Asos; Boden dresses would end up being the equivalent of a size 14 on the waist and a 12 on the chest because they don't understand that boobs exist

c) clothing is made by multiple different suppliers in multiple different factories and the measurements vary from factory to factory and, in the case of mass cutting, can vary depending on which part of the stack your garment pieces are cut from, so your 86cm sized top might actually be an 84cm or 88cm top in reality - it would be no more standardised than numerical sizing

d) it would cause confusion amongst customers on the level of bringing in decimalisation in the early 70s

but that's not vanity sizing, that's inconsistent sizing

Ha! Didn't expect that, did you?

[deleted]

Well they were smaller years ago.
i found a bag of clothes from the 90’s last week. All size 12 from m&S, Topshop etc. I’m a size 12 now and they were 2-3 sizes to small!

I am an M&S 12 and have a healthy BMI.

as hypercritical of my body as I am, I wouldn’t describe myself as “very large”.

The problem with standardised sizing across the board is that it makes it impossible to cater for people with long legs, big boobs, wide hips, broad shoulders or whatever. If you think of the feature you have difficulty fitting because it doesn't fit the average for your height/size very well, you probably did have somewhere back in the day that catered to it better than other places, because back then companies know who their customer was. With Shein et al pulling out shite faster than we can feed back on it, places no longer know who their customer is and end up fitting nobody.

Like I said, what's needed is a massive mindset shift but I actually think it's impossible now. Even if you avoid fast fashion (and I know I named Shein but there are plenty of more expensive brands with more genteel marketing that are kist as bad), its impact has been so wide reaching, it's changed everything.

Interesting but not my experience at all.

Well they are both related.
clothing sizes are getting bigger and bigger in competition with other shops. Some people want to feel good and are not willing to go up a size. So they would rather go to another store than fits than buy a larger size.
I needed a size 8 in Oliver Bonas recently. I’m a 12!

I should have said we have peaked in hand and foot growth, not sizing. I agree that manufacturers are lagging behind in terms of shoe size. I had the same problem with my sons, who didn’t want to wear basketball footwear just because it’s what was available to them.

By hip I was referring to the widest part of a woman’s lower body. Manufacturers say hip, we know they mean arse and thighs. Definitely not the bony bits.

Yes, if it's too much work for the retailers to post photos with measurements, give rewards to customers who do it or who post their own photos with their height and weight etc. (none of this "fits me perfectly" with no further information, that's no use).

Ex designer/ clothing industry / pattern cutter here
The reason sizes changed is this:
People have got larger over the decades ( a whole other thread /topic), not just weight wise but height too.
I create a dress and wish to manufacture 1000 over 5 sizes.
I decide a cutting ratio to ensure that I sell as many as possible and the 'average' sized body , therefore the one you sold the most of, was always labelled a 12.

My graded sizes for this style would be 8,10,12,14,16.
In this imaginary business ( for the purpose of the thread) I know my target customer and so I also know the sizes I'll likely sell the most of.
A typical cutting docket would be this ratio: 1/3/4/2/1

I was trading and manufacturing throughout the period whereby sizes needed to change as I recall dockets going into production and larger sizes selling out with too many smaller sizes leftover.
I also traded in vintage clothing during the early 80's and 1950's high st stuff was tiny even compared to then.

I remember changing my base size blocks twice, once just shifting it up 1 (so the 10's became 6's) then again in about 2010 but by a half size. This was just to make the 10/12 the most average high volume size ( in the types of ranges I created).
It was the 90's that size 6 really became more used ( previously it didn't really exist and the 80's was all very loose fit anyway). Very petite women used to have to buy teenage sizes ( which were more common then as a separate range).

It was called vanity sizing but all it was really keeping the size 12 as the size for Ms Majority and the size that would outsell all others in a standard range.

I have a vintage Bus Stop suit from the ‘60s that belonged to my mum. It says size 10 on the label but is probably the equivalent to a size 6 today.
The waist is so tiny I doubt it would fit around my thigh

Same here - I'm 5ft 8 and weigh around ten stone. BMI around 22. I wear a size 12 in M and S and wouldn't say I'm very large.

It didn't occur to me that 'hip' might mean arse and thighs - my hips are the widest part of my lower body (a comparatively smaller arse and much smaller waist means I don't buy trousers, basically, because they aren't gonna fit unless the store makes a curvy/hourglass fit, and that;s been the case regardless of dress sizes I've been) and if I'm taking a hip measurement in something I'm checking the bit where, well, my actual hips are going to go.

I'm also 5'8 and wear an M&S 12. Broad shoulders and bust so occasionally take a 14 on top! 😱 I'm around 13 stone though so my BMI is closer to 30 than 20 so I'm basically crippling the NHS single handedly with my big obese body. If it was the 1980s I'd probably have to head to an outdoor shop and buy a tent.

really interesting thank you - so its based on the premise that a 12 is what the average woman would wear. I never knew that.