To say vanity sizes should be rolled back?

[amoreoamicizia]

I bought some vintage St. Michael shorts this weekend in a size 12 which fitted me perfectly. In current sizes I'm an 8 or sometimes- incredibly- a 6 (looking at you, Boden).

As flattering as it is to think of myself as a size 8, it's simply not the truth or a reflection of reality. A small size 12 does seem about right, as that was my size as a slim-ish teenager in the 90s.

Who is this vanity sizing really helping? Who does it serve? Isn't it about time clothing manufacturers were held to account and forced to roll back sizes to what they were in the early 00s, at least?

Just because you chose to ignore years of marketing research, studies and work about the impact on consumers and level of sales, it doesn't mean you are right and I am wrong.

You are also spectacularly ignoring the effect of what is seen as socially or culturally acceptable, and the effect on people's behaviour, but you have google, if you were really interested you would research it yourself.

It still doesn't solve the issue of consistency, but there are reasons why sizing are so inconsistent, and why H&M size small but Phase 8 generous.

Vanity sizing is a real thing. People buy more clothes if they feel flattered by the size on it. It's a mistake to think people are always rational about this. They may know they are over their desired weight, but if they can be convinced they are thinner than they thought, they are motivated to buy the item. It's not something they are conscious of doing. I suspect it comes into play more with women who are average or thin, but want to believe they are thinner than they thought.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerdooley/2013/07/29/vanity-sizing/

I remember being in a change room and trying on a pair of jeans that were too tight. When I came out, a woman who was clearly bigger than me asked what size they were and if she could try them. I told her what size they were, that they were unusually and uncomfortably tight for that size and she said she was sure they would fit. I mean, there was no way. When she was gone, the salesperson told me she sees that all the time.
This wasn't a fat woman either. She was pretty much average.

I did catch that yes, in a later post. But in her original post, she also describes being able to consider herself a size 8 'flattering', so I'm not entirely sure where she stands, as being flattered to be a size 8, yet wanting to be bigger than the 'real' size 12 she is are a bit contradictory.

Yeah, I took that as a joke.
Maybe you should ask her.

It's funny how some people think they are clothing experts because they wear clothes. I use a computer, doesn't make me a software engineer.

Well like I said, some people absolutely must believe the vanity sizing myth and everything that goes with it, and care so much that to them, it's actually personal ("you are right, I am wrong etc"). Finding a link from someone who started on the same false premise only proves that the myth is widely believed, not that it's actually true.

Anyway, I have explained it, numerous times, as has another poster with extensive experience. I do think some people have found it helpful and the market is going to carry on doing what it needs to do to be profitable (adapting to change, namely), no matter what myths are perpetuated about it. It doesn't really matter whether people accept it or not; it remains objectively true and that really is that.

It's funny how some people think they are clothing experts because they wear clothes. I use a computer, doesn't make me a software engineer.

It's funny that someone who has no clue about my business and professional experience in real life can be so adamant to be right when they simply disagree 😂

You are also beautifully contradicting yourself in the same post

the market is going to carry on doing what it needs to do to be profitable quite.😃
You might not like the term used to describe this, but even you agree it's a thing!

Sorry, but claiming some special expertise about clothing is just not going to cut it against a tide of information which says that vanity sizing is a real, deliberate marketing strategy.
What in earth is a "clothing expert?"
There is no objective truth about a subjective subject like marketing. The purpose of marketing is to make people abandon objectivity and buy, buy, buy.

Googling vanity sizing gets you a zillion hits. It's a widespread myth that many people are determined to believe and that gets lots of clicks. Means nothing. When the trade press and conferences etc start telling manufacturers how to exploit it to kid their customers and make more money, I might think it's a thing. As it is, the concept flies in the face of what actually happens in the industry and what actually would be profitable (because it all comes down to scaling around your modal size). We had a pattern maker earlier explaining that her sizing got smaller because that was her customer and the larger size wasn't selling.

The fact that women like wearing smaller sizes doesn't mean the industry is inflating size to cater to vanity and lie to fat people. I'm sure there are people who would rather wear badly fitting clothes they look shit in than something good with a different number on the label, but I've yet to see any actual evidence that they're driving the market more than modal and median sizing scales and customer profiling (difficult as that now is).

But tbh, we are now at the point where people are claiming that industry knowledge doesn't matter (!) and someone keeps insisting that the issue of size inconsistency hasn't been explained yet when it has been, several times, at length. It doesn't surprise me; like I said in my first post, I know a lot of people really don't like this, but I'm afraid that doesn't stop it from being true.

Have a great evening, all.

"My professed special knowledge has more weight than the thousands of sources, including industry sources, which say the opposite. I, being a person with special knowledge which the rest of you couldn't possibly fathom, know the Objective Truth that has somehow been hidden from the rest of humanity. If you don't trust my word and choose to trust those thousands of sources that disagree with me, you probably just don't like fat people."

I have seen some strange claims on the interwebs in my day. This is up there among the strangest.

Where did you see that? Wasn’t on this thread 🤷‍♀️

It isn't a real quote, which I is why it isn't attributed to anyone. I was paraphrasing to the point of absurdity to make a point about some comments I found odd.

I’m aware it was a ‘paraphrase’ - your words not anyone else’s. It’s not a paraphrase of anything on this thread though, just of what you’ve imagined

Your opinion is duly noted.

Cut your labels off! Problem solved :)

I don't live in the UK, but have bought things from M&S. Our sizing is the same as UK sizing, and I buy the same size from M&S that I buy from anywhere else, including other UK sellers. I haven't noticed the M&S clothes being any larger.

I also don't still wear the same size clothes that I wore in the 70s when I was a bit thinner.

The cut of clothes has changed too. Phase 8 size 10 and Adini size XS used to fit me perfectly but the dresses are often now much too big on the waist with loads of extra fabric at the back. These are fitted or semi-fitted styles, not supposed to be loose and draping.

I am slim - a fact, not a boast. I have not changed shape, the clothes have.

See this is where it comes a cropper, when it cuts off smaller peoples sizes. If they want to do vanity sizing fair enough but then introduce a xxxs and xxs

It doesn’t ’cut off smaller sizes’. They don’t decide not to make a size that sells because the median size has changed. If small sizes aren’t available it’s because they aren’t economic, not because the nasty stupid fatties made the companies change the numbers. As a PP said, if you think there’s money in it, do what plus size women did when nothing nice was available for them - set up companies producing small clothes.

@cardibach I've never been below a size 12 so don't know why you're getting mardy with me 😂
Just responding to someone else saying she can't find her small size anymore.

Where did I get mardy? I simply pointed out what you were saying didn’t make sense. And it doesn’t.

@cardibach I was responding to someone else.

Eh? I quoted you and responded. You responded by tagging me. You haven’t any other posts on this thread I can find and nobody except me has responded to the post I quoted. Plus what you said clearly references my comment.

Shops provide what sells. They want to make a profit. Anyone a long way from the average size has difficulty finding stuff. If there’s enough demand specialist outlets and shops pop up.

Fed up of seeing loads of size 3 shoes and 8/10 clothes in the sales. Increase the proportion of larger sizes