To say vanity sizes should be rolled back?

[amoreoamicizia]

I bought some vintage St. Michael shorts this weekend in a size 12 which fitted me perfectly. In current sizes I'm an 8 or sometimes- incredibly- a 6 (looking at you, Boden).

As flattering as it is to think of myself as a size 8, it's simply not the truth or a reflection of reality. A small size 12 does seem about right, as that was my size as a slim-ish teenager in the 90s.

Who is this vanity sizing really helping? Who does it serve? Isn't it about time clothing manufacturers were held to account and forced to roll back sizes to what they were in the early 00s, at least?

I'm an old school 12 and new style 6/8 too. I don't find the fact that my measurements now have a new number remotely 'unhelpful'. I judge my health on my BMI and my body size on my measurements. In what way do you find it hindrance? Because the sizes have been bigger for about 20 years now and you've clearly adapted to buying 8s instead of 12s.

It is getting crazy and I do wonder what people who are actually small wear.

I'm a tall pear shape, with my weight on my hips and thighs. As a teenager, I used to buy size 14 jeans off the market. Admittedly, I think market clothes and those aimed at young people came up a bit smaller than some brands, but I always had a 14. I'm exactly the same weight 30 years later (go me 😆) and actually still have one of those pairs of jeans, cut down to shorts for doing the garden in.

This summer, I've been looking for new denim shorts. I needed some that fit round the wait but aren't too tight on the thighs. The answer? Size 8 from Next!!!

Totally agree for the purely selfish reason that most shops don't go below a 6 and with the vanity sizings 6 is far too large. Not being a competitive teeny tiny, I just have a very small frame due to my ethnicity!

Edit: this was in response to this (quotation fail) "Just wear what fits you now from whatever shop you go in, there's no need to try to make perfectly normal in any era current M&S size 12s feel like giant zeppelins."

Equally, as someone pointed out above there's no need to make average or average-to-slim women feel underweight or that they're outwith the scope of normal clothing sizes.

I watched an old TV programme recently think 2000s and a 12 was a 26 waist!

It was Fat Friends

MN is literally the only place i have ever come across this hand-wringing about vanity sizing. it's just not a thing anyone else seems particularly perturbed by. Inconsistency in sizing yes, but the horror that the fatties might be fooled into thinking they're teeny tiny, nope, no one else seems to care really.

FWIW i have things in my wardrobe from S-XL and from 8 - 20. i exclusively shop online and rarely need to return things because the're the wrong size perhaps i'm just made of Plasticine

Don't be ridiculous. Someone who fits into an M&S 12 is not 'very large'.

They'd be totally normal, healthy BMI and actually quite slim if they were taller than average.

Like most others, I just want consistent sizing, especially now most shops don't keep much stock in their shops, or even exist any more and charge for delivery and returns half the time. I'm sick of spending money on delivery and returns and not even ending up with new clothes to wear.

Thank you for this thread. It’s v interesting as I’m currently on a weight journey (I won’t say if that’s up or down) and I’ve been very confused about sizing.

Especially Next

Actual measurements would make me so happy! I hate shopping as it's such a minefield to know what size to order. Shopping in person is a horrible experience for me so online it is, and I hate having to generate waste by ordering multiple sizes when I know I will be returning at least one of them. I would love to buy from Vinted etc for myself like I do for the kids. Couldn't care less what number is on the label, I just want it to fit!
My current wardrobe has everything from size 8 to 16. It all fits me. Madness.

Does it matter though? You are the size you are, whatever arbitrary number they come up with for it.

We are, overall, bigger these days. And while there has been a rise in obesity, we are also taller and broader - I think clothes sizes just adjust so a 10/12 remains medium in the population. Clothes manufacturers are there to make money, not to police our sizing

No there are just relative sizes unless we want to be exact and list by some actual measurements say waist size in inches or hips in cm. If people are getting bigger and not just fatter but taller too then I can’t see why these sizes can’t be relative and change with the population.

Have sizes changed that much since the 2000s? I’ve been consistently a size 8 since my teens, my jeans are still 8s and I’m the same weight. I have a pair of 26s (so 8) Miss Sixty jeans from 2003 and they still fit and are the same width as my recent H&M size 8s.

i have noticed tops are large though, I often get an XS and they’re just really oversized.!

These threads crop up all the time and it’s absolutely tedious and pathetic. Very much smacks of the attitude “how dare these women think they are a 12 when they are clearly a 16, they should not be lulled into a false sense of security about their size”. Stop trying to put other women down.

I think it does matter. Most of our clothes shops have closed down and my choices for trying on clothes are Primark and M&S. That’s all we have left.

If I buy online then fairly often I have to return the items as they don’t fit but some stores like Zara have made returns very difficult. So I can no longer shop there.

My size in Next, M&S and Boden are all very different. It’s frustrating.

Sometimes two pairs of jeans from Next in the same size will also be vastly different.

It absolutely can lie to you! I have small hips, and in my experience, unless the trousers sized according to waist size are cut to sit precisely on the actual waist (most are not), the sizing is more like 'the hip size we think you will have if your waist size is 26, 27 or 28 inches'. So the sizes still come out different for different shops because they're working with a different imaginary waist to hip ratio. M&S typically are aiming for wider hips, whereas places like TopShop catering to skinny teenage girls will tend to have a straighter cut. When I was a size 8, most trousers were low-waisted and I had to buy a 6 or even a 4. I couldn't buy from M&S at all because they had massive sticky-out hips.

This thread will be mentioned on a different forum. Deservedly so.

Yours,
A fatty

M&S have uber generous sizing.

I bought some size 10 trousers that need a belt to hold them up {I'm not skinny, BMI 21}

I'm not sure that's true, I'm tall with a BMI of 23, so healthy but not skinny and certainly not a dainty little thing. An 8 in M&S fits me, so a 12 is pretty big.

It's not about being competitive or a 'teeny tiny' - as PP have said, spare a thought for those of us who are getting sized out of mainstream shops! I'm just over 5ft tall, and small all over. In the 1980s my measurements would have made me a size 10, and I'm sure I would have been well catered for in the shops of the day. Not so much now.

Fair enough, let's treat the labels as relative sizes and scale them up if the average measurements of the population change... but can we then please add some more sizes to the lower end too?

It's not about making other people feel bad - people seem to be interpreting complaints about sizes getting bigger as slim people sneering 'of course you're not really a size 8'... not my intention at all. But as people are asking why it matters, one result of sizes getting bigger is that there is less choice for smaller people. And I love clothes, fashion, and shopping, so that makes me very frustrated!

It wouldn’t matter a bit if it wasn’t for internet shopping. I’d like to see measurements in cm, to include both the body it was meant to fit (38” bust, say) and actual garment dimensions (41” to allow ease).

That would give proper grounds for return and refund when the sizing turned out to be wrong.

Knitting patterns have been written this way all my lifetime without problems.

Except they do lie! I usually end up buying jeans that tell me they’re to fit a 25 or 26 inch waist and I absolutely do not have a waist that size! I even measured the waistband once and brought it up to a member of staff. She didn’t understand what I was on about. It’s very frustrating and is the main reason I can’t buy most clothes online. I have to try things on, and jeans that fit properly are unicorns these days.

I remember when shopping was fun 😆

I'm fairly certain that everybody has been put straight by the size 6s of Mumsnet by now.

It does lie, I have size 26 jeans from Reiss. I definitely do not have a 26in waist! Try measuring them.

Also why is everything so long all of a sudden?. I'm 5'7" and trousers and dresses are almost always too long for my now, which never used to be a problem.

@TitInATrance it's definitely possible! Uniqlo give a size chart with garment sizes and body sizes listed separately.