To say vanity sizes should be rolled back?

[amoreoamicizia]

I bought some vintage St. Michael shorts this weekend in a size 12 which fitted me perfectly. In current sizes I'm an 8 or sometimes- incredibly- a 6 (looking at you, Boden).

As flattering as it is to think of myself as a size 8, it's simply not the truth or a reflection of reality. A small size 12 does seem about right, as that was my size as a slim-ish teenager in the 90s.

Who is this vanity sizing really helping? Who does it serve? Isn't it about time clothing manufacturers were held to account and forced to roll back sizes to what they were in the early 00s, at least?

Are none of you clever enough to work out if you’re a healthy weight without using clothing sizes? What does it matter if they’re different than 20 years ago, as long as they aren’t changing on a weekly basis.

Also, whoever said that an M&S size 12 would fit someone ‘very large’, how ridiculous. I’m a 12 and very fit and healthy (and a healthy weight for my height). I’ve been a size eight and I was weak and looked ridiculous.

Thank you very much :-) I don't have all of those near me, but great to have some places to try (and an excuse to travel to other towns for the ones that aren't close - shopping AND a daytrip, what's not to like?!).

Honestly, I don't care what number is on my label, it's not a moral judgement or an achievement - I'd be happy to be a 'green label' or a 'size C' or whatever, so long as it was consistent across shops and readily available...

It’ll depend on height and where you carry your weight.

I’m short so even with a BMI of about 23 my measurements are small enough to fit an 8. Someone tall with a 26 inch waist is thinner than someone my height (158cm ish) with the same waist.

Not sure about that. Despite being labelled in measurements (34,36),my husband is starting to find that he can fit in a 34 in one shop but only squeezes in a 36 in another.

If you're going by waist size you could be an apple with a BMI of 21 and a waist of 30" (12/14) or an hour glass with a BMI of 24 and a waist of 25" (8). No one is a weird shape, but women come in very different shapes.

I have a size 12 very fitted, boned, prom style dress I bought nearly 40 years ago. It's still a perfect fit even though nowadays I buy size 8 in most places.

Obvs it's rubbish that you should have to do this, but I'd suggest getting a tailor to take your jeans in up the back seam. I've done this before because I have quite muscular thighs so I'd get the ones that fitted my legs and then just get them altered. It's a pretty easy alteration so not that expensive, and you get a perfect fit.

The people who think wearing a size 12 is a sign of being unhealthy have very little idea about different body shapes and the impact of height on dress size.

I'm a relatively short, narrowly built woman so I would look quite big if I was a size 12. My friend is tall and slightly wider built and wears a size 12 regularly. She looks the same as me but just a scaled up version if that makes sense. So she doesn't look fatter or more unhealthy.

Nobody has issues with people being small, slim, slender, whatever. It’s the comments about how they are so tiny it’s impossible to find any clothes, or that only people of gargantuan proportions wear a size 12 from M&S, or how if your bmi is X you’re a size 8 and if you’re in a 10 then you’re clearly overweight…. Just nonsense.

anyway, have we had “obesity epidemic “or “we’ve lost sight of what a normal size is” yet?

@wery, wear the size that fits you. It's just a number.
The BMI is calculated on height and weight, and it doesn't indicate a size.

Men's sizing is definitely all over the place too, especially in the shops that use M/L/XL instead of inches as the basis of their sizing.

My sons are forever swapping clothes when their online purchases don't fit.

I was caught badly the other day, I bought a bunch of 2nd hand dresses from ebay and they are all too tight, they were from an online charity shop and obviously many years old.

so true!! never thought about that before. S, M, L, XL, XXL etc. do men think that the sizing has changed since the 80's wonder?

The numbers on labels are arbitrary, that's why they differ from brand to brand. They may as well be called 'Dave' or 'Belgium' or a nice emoji of a strawberry. They aren't ever going to be consistent between shops because each shop cuts for a different body type/set of measurements and the numbers reflect that, not anyone else's sizing. 'Vanity sizing' suggests it's some kind of weird conspiracy to keep the population overweight when it's a reflection of a number of things from brand customer base to people being larger overall (height, bra size, proportions) to clothes being made with more ease so the brand can stock four sizes instead of ten and save money.

Just check the brand's actual size chart before buying, and if you don't like the size on the label, cut out the label. And if you don't like the idea of someone who 'should' be a size 18 wearing size 12 clothes, or that you should have a 10 on the back of your pants instead of a 6, I would also recommend having a good think about why that bothers you so much, perhaps with a therapist.

Sizing was deregulated in the 1980s, and I don't think we can put the genie back in the bottle following the (industry avowed) vanity sizing of the 1990s, much as I wish it could be done.

What I'd like to see instead (because I think it's more achievable) is
a) sizing always accompanied by a chart that gives measurements in cm & in, and for those the be "true" measures, not allowing for people who pull the tape measure in tight (annoying when you're drowning in excess fabric, having ordered a 29" waist and it measuring 32)
b) a change in rhetoric, so that people no longer think of 12 as "medium" as that maps to the 1980s, since then, everything has changed (by vanity, not the old-style revalorisation) and we need to start thinking of 8-10 as normal/medium, 12-14 as large, and 16 and above as the XL sizes.

We live in an obesogenic society, and the population is much fatter than it was. As you can see from my suggestion, I want peoples perception of clothing sizes to reflect that a lot off the population is fat. It could be done differently, by revalorising so that 12 is indeed "medium" again. But that cannot mean the same thing as an 80s 12, where it reflected a healthy weight.

On current sizing, it's possible to be obese but wear 12/14 clothes comfortably. Which is of course fine, provided the perception of those sizes is indeed "large, but that's typical now" rather than "medium, which means normal weight")

Size of course would not matter if obesity did not cost the NHS so much - it's implicated in so very many conditions, and the damage creeps in over the years of being fat - people can feel fine and vigorous for many years whilst the silent damage is being done. Especially if they think that wearing a 12 means they're OK.

I am aware how much size inflation there is, but think it’s only bad really because it allows people to be deluded about how big they are. Selling in inch measurements would simplify and standardise and support honest self assessment. It’s just a marketing ploy to seduce you into buying.

@Watercoloursky if you have a big TK Maxx near you it would be worth a look - sometimes the designer stuff is sample sizes, and the normal clothes are all stuff that hasn't sold because it's unpopular sizes, so there tends to be quite good stuff in the smallest sizes.

Absolutely this.

Is there a real purpose to this thread, or is it just humblebragging about modern sizes just being too big for someone's teeny-weeny body, conscious or otherwise? Making sizes smaller again wouldn't resolve the real issue, which is the total lack of consistency in sizing not only across shops/brands but even within them.

Make stores use waist and leg length measurements for bottoms, perhaps waist and bust for tops, and do so accurately. Simple.

Yes this.

Also people don't seem to understand that the amount of ease that designers include varies hugely.

I make lots of my own clothes and patterns often have a size chart for their suggested sizing (so if you have a waist of x inches that designer considers that a size y) but also a chart showing finished garment size where you can see that size y actually has a finished waist of x+2 inches). That extra 2 inches is the ease and if you like a more fitted look you may want to size down a couple of sizes.

If you accidentally use the finished garment size as your body measurements you will not be able to move in it or may not be able to get it on at all (ask me how i know 😭).

ETA - unless you're using a stretchy fabric then you may even want negative ease for a very fitted look!

Sizing is not simple even using cm or inches!

Not really aiming at you specifically, but BMI shouldn’t be used to measure the weight of individuals, it’s really more for measuring larger groups.
That said, according to BMI, people built like George Clooney are apparently obese, which is clearly ridiculous.

YABU. They weren't any more consistent in the early 2000s and that's what is important.

Call me a 10 or a 20, I don't care - I just want to be able to buy clothing from any shop and know that the size I've picked is going to fit.

Net-a-porter measures individual items of clothing in all sizes and I’m sure this helps keep returns/costs low. I would like to see all online retailers do this.

Amazing, thank you! There's one a couple of towns over that looks quite big - guess where I'm headed this weekend? 😄