To say vanity sizes should be rolled back?

[amoreoamicizia]

I bought some vintage St. Michael shorts this weekend in a size 12 which fitted me perfectly. In current sizes I'm an 8 or sometimes- incredibly- a 6 (looking at you, Boden).

As flattering as it is to think of myself as a size 8, it's simply not the truth or a reflection of reality. A small size 12 does seem about right, as that was my size as a slim-ish teenager in the 90s.

Who is this vanity sizing really helping? Who does it serve? Isn't it about time clothing manufacturers were held to account and forced to roll back sizes to what they were in the early 00s, at least?

You need to shop in the Spanish shops - Zara, Mango - that caters to smaller framed women. I’m a tall 14 and can’t shop in these shops. M&S is not for the very slim, I do sympathise if you struggle to find 6s & 8s that fit. That’s really shitty

'Sizes' should be eliminated and we should sell clothes by (accurate) actual waist, hip and bust measurements - as men's clothes are sold.

It is sadly unsurprising that women are pressured to be a 'size 8' or 'size 10' but actually, those terms are more or less meaningless, leading to the potential for a woman to feel lacking in some way if the 'size 10' she tries on is too small; cue insecurity and vulnerability from many.

Yet a man can measure his waist and confidently buy, e.g. 'size 32' trousers, without a second thought.

I'm too old now to GAF what 'size' I am, thankfully, but even then it's inconvenient being unable to select clothes and be confident that their measurements will match my body!

I think some women refuse to buy an item of clothing above a certain size. Then wear clothes which are too tight, emphasises their bulges more. But it bought next size up, it look better

I am 5ft 8 with a long body. Wish manufacturers will make tops longer by an inch or so as some tops are too short and find that uncomfortable and spending time yanking the top down.

An inch longer wouldn’t look silly on those who are 5ft 8

No, too big and too small always seem to be available. Never the right size.

Except that I have a couple of pairs of well fitting jeans sized like that. both 28 inches I think, and I am am apple with a large waist (prob about 32/33?) and relatively small hips and skinny legs. If I bought ones labelled 32 or 33 they'd be massive on the hips and legs. The 28s fit well all over, despite the waist size being much smaller than my actual size.

Tbf to PP, that really isn't what the thread was about. Though some people have raised it as an issue alongside the problem of not finding clothes small enough, which are separate matters entirely, and not the issues OP is complaining about. She simply doesnt like the fact that the size formerly known as 12 is now known as 8 and wants this reverted.
She can find clothes that fit, she knows the size she is is now labelled a 6/8, so I struggle to see the problem. Just like countless older women who've retained roughly the sane measurements they had 30 years ago, myself included, the OP is finding the label on clothes that fit her now has a smaller number. But we've had at least 20 years to have copped on to that so it's hardly 'confusing'.
The only issue with this for the OP is her objection to larger women allegedly believing themselves to be smaller than they are. However I'm fairly sure they've copped on as well, have mirrors and scales, so the whole thing is a non issue.

Men's clothes are the worst, and opposite to the problems women face, I am a 36 inch waist, but have to buy 38 or even 40 inch trousers, because they simply use enough material. I've even taken a tape measure into m&s and measured the trousers to prove its not me trying to kid myself!

She can find clothes that fit, she knows the size she is is now labelled a 6/8, so I struggle to see the problem.

Perhaps not for the OP, but for others the problem is that the clothes now labelled 6/8 have got bigger and the smaller sized clothes that were labelled 6/8 have simply disappeared from the rails. They haven’t been relabelled 2/4. Next and M&S, I am looking at you.

Well they might not be looking at you...if they don't sell your size, chances are you are not their customer and they've decided, rightly or wrongly, that it isn't cost effective to produce those sizes. To be honest, this is exactly what happened in the past with plus sizes, but look what's happened to that market since, so chin up, change is possible. Find the place that caters for you and throw your money at it. Many plus size women started their own lines and supported such businesses because they were not being catered to, and smaller women could do the same.

The only issue with this for the OP is her objection to larger women allegedly believing themselves to be smaller than they are. However I'm fairly sure they've copped on as well, have mirrors and scales, so the whole thing is a non issue.

I'm afraid that, much as everyone always denies it, I really think that this is what this discussion always comes down to, and that's why I always get such backlash and refusal to believe what I'm saying about it not being vanity sizing and why sizing is really going all over the place. For reasons I do not know (I have some ideas but I won't be going into them here), people are very, very attracted to the idea that plus size women are somehow being flattered and deluded about their size, and that a significant number of them are too vain and dim to realise it. (People of all sizes believe this, just to be clear.)

In my experience, though, and as you say, fat people really do know they're fat. If sizing was indeed a mass, vanity-based conspiracy, it has been blown wide open now. We all know sizes have changed and are inconsistent. It's not a secret. The jig never existed but if it had, it would be well and truly up.

And something that doesn't help is a consumer expectation that mass produced clothing should fit them very well in the size they think they should be, even when they know they have long legs, big boobs, are tall or whatever. And even when the cost of the garment makes it clear it can't possibly have been made to a brilliant standard. That, to me, seems to be a far greater and more widespread delusion than fat people thinking they're thinner than they are.

Indeed, @NonPlayerCharacter

They all say ‘I used to be a 10 and now I’m bigger but I can’t get even an 8 because they hang off me’ and somehow think larger people won’t have noticed the same. You aren’t cleverer/more observant, lovely, you are just thinner. It’s infuriating.

I suspect much of it is based in people stuck in the idea of the aspirational 'perfect 10' of the 24" waist; and irritation that larger 'undeserving' women are now able to claim or get closer to that size.

And among larger women, a desire not to be seen as too vain or stupid to have been taken in by the non-existent delusion. A variation of "I'm not like other girls", if you will.

Sorry, I know I said I wouldn't be going into it...

Interesting. The threads are invariably started by a 'real' size 10 or 12 woman, from back in the day when those sizes were the ideal, and size 8 and below was considered 'skinny' and less desirable. You rarely see them started by women saying I'd have been a 20 in the 80s so it's infuriating I can now fit into a 16. However as you say, you do get some agreement, so that's an interesting take on where that comes from.

It's the lack of consistency even in the same shop. Bought two pairs of bottoms , same style, same size, same fit just different materials. One is slightly too tight and one is absolutely huge. Fucking ridiculous.

You really cant win. Clothing sizes vary so much. Even measurements dont seem as advertised half the time.

Thats why I love buying from places that have plenty of reviews as you often get an honest opinion of sizing.
Also love those on line size checkers where it will let you put your measurements in and what normally fits and tells you what size to buy!

Agree. I've found men's shirts are longer so I sometimes get those. I like my shirts to come down to my hip bones at a minimum.

Very large? Bugger off. They might fit someone who is a 14 in other shops but that's not even 'very large'. Are you French size by any chance?

of course they are very large - compared to sizes in other high street shops, and not just the teen shops like New Look where clothes are smaller.

M&S is known for being extra generous with the sizes, good incentive for people to buy clothes as they feel good fitting in a smaller size.

So you think anyone who wears a size 12 in M and S is very large? I'm 5ft 8, just over 10 stone, BMI of around 22. Doctor described my weight as "perfect". I wear a size 12 in M and S. Do you think I'm very large?

Did you not catch where she said she lost weight because of illness and actually wants to put weight on?
I would say that blows the theory about her motives being to shame bigger people out of the water. It's not a stealth attack on bigger women to have a pet peeve about sizing. It's not that deep.

I'm somewhat irritated by the fact that sizes no longer correspond toeasurements too. To use the size 8 example, it used to be that a size eight corresponded to a 27-28 inch waist and 37-38 inch hips. It was easy to predict what size to try based on your measurements. Now the sizes are all over the place.

See...we cant even agree amongest ourselves which sizes are smaller and which are bigger!

Personally Ive found M&S pretty standard for me. New Look on the other hand Ive found sizes big. Im a 10 most places but an 8 in New Look.

I don't think so. M&S sizing pisses me off because, like others, I paid £35 for a pair of size 8 trousers that somehow became baggy and unwearable. I imagine it's the same for plus size women, irritating to think you're getting an 18 and then you can't wear it.

Lengths also piss me off, personally. 32 inches is not tall!

We need universal sizing or measurements

M&S is known for being extra generous with the sizes, good incentive for people to buy clothes as they feel good fitting in a smaller size.

I know it is pointless saying this to you, as you are one of those people wedded to this vanity sizing myth, but hey, I'm one of those people who never learn...

Fat people know they are fat. They're fat, not blind or stupid. We all know sizing is inconsistent and if we have recent high street shopping experience, we know where the more generous sizes are.

Obviously one can never say never, but I really do not believe that many women go to shop X purely so they can lie to themselves about how big they are, prioritising that over stuff that's in a style they actually like and suits them. It can be expensive and most people care more about what they actually look like and whether the garment is stretching and bursting or fits properly.

It's part of the "plus size women are too vain and dim to realise the sizing has changed" idea. I've known a lot of people to make jokes when they fit into a size number they wouldn't normally fit into but not one of them didn't understand that they wouldn't get into that size elsewhere. That's why they were joking. I've done it myself. "Oh tell me sweet lies..."

I know you won't accept this but hey. It might be useful for others who are reading.