To be glad that the VAT on school fees

[Shaketherombooga]

Is now going to be happening in January? what’s the point in stalling it? I think it’s one of many decisions that we just need to get in with.

YABU - it’s SO unfair. Labour hates ‘strivers’ etc etc

YANBU - Yup, Labour said they are taking away tax breaks for private schools, so let’s get on with it.

@LoremIpsumCici I don’t have a partner. “Our” referred to our family. I’m the only adult.

I am so sick of this attitude, how can it possibly be fair? If this continues people will stop bothering to be successful, why would you? It just means you are taxed every which way you turn to help pay for the people who failed to be sucessful and earn a good income but get loads of free government support.

If the intention is to make the wealthier pay more tax then why restrict the tax to a minority of higher earners?

Over half of the highest earning households use state schools. Why should they not pay more tax instead of those on similar incomes who use fewer state resources?

Surely if a sense of equity and those most able to give a bit more paying more is what you want to achieve then I struggle to see why an income tax change wouldn’t be more equitable. The VAT policy will mean that some lower earning parents who have been virtually forced to use private schools will be made to further subsidise far wealthier families who have access to outstanding state schools. That just isn’t right.

I am genuinely glad your partner broke free and can now afford therapy.

I don’t have a “poor me” attitude. lol. You got the wrong end of the stick, I am very successful but have the wisdom to know that there are many people I left behind who also started with nothing and worked just as hard and made just as good decisions and are still trapped in poverty or dead or in prison.

I am with @Meowzabubz. The parents at my DC’s school won’t even blink because they have the means to continue the private school journey and this is just politics of envy that will affect the wrong people with their kids just entering an overstretched system.

But in the face of this those of us left will stick together and tbh I am pleased that my kids won’t have to be at school with kids that have parents like you so we will just continue to rise above it all. So yeah let’s get on with it @Shaketherombooga

It's a stupid idea, it's penalising people who are prioritising their child's education.

I went to private school and it was not chock a block with wealthy flashy families, my family certainly wasn't. Some will be, but it'll be a lot of middle class families who want to invest their money in private school for their kids, many stretching themselves to make it work.

I think it's really unfair and the kind of people cheering it on are one's without this insight who think all private school people are posh and super rich - I used to get that all the time when I was at the school. All the other kids thought we were posh twats.

All it will do is drive up competition for all the decent state schools and I think increasing class sizes would be a massive failure of government.

Well you’ve just demonstrated you’re an idiot @LoremIpsumCici talking about the miners getting jobs because they had to…I think what you’ll actually find is that former mining areas now have generational unemployment. They didn’t just go and get jobs (there were precious few to be had).

@LoremIpsumCici you are “very successful”? So, by your own definition “lucky”? Your success is not of your own making it’s just “luck”?
And why would you assume we don’t “have the wisdom” to realise that others have a much harder time? Particularly when we have both had a fairly hard time ourselves?
Both of us know exactly how shit it can be and, aside from the fuck ton of tax we pay, do a lot to support those who struggle. But neither of us agree that taxing private school fees is the answer.

It’s 20% of the highest earning households send their child to a private school:
”Consistent with Figure 1, around one in five children in the top-income decile went to a private school. This proportion and the overall participation rates have remained remarkably stable since 1997.”

“Why should they not pay more tax instead of those on similar incomes who use fewer state resources?” ( the other 80% of the 1% with school age kids)

Well they do pay tax too. If you aren’t spending it on school, you are likely spending money on many tutors (VAT added at threshold) on extracurricular activities (VAT there) on other things like travel (heavily taxed) multiple properties (many taxes) and investments (CGT taxed) or starting a business (corporate tax, dividend tax) or expensive hobbies (VAT)

It’s about closing off a tax free way to spend a lot of money on one nonessential luxury. Other rich families will be paying tax on their luxury spends too, they will just be buying different services and things.

Sorry fig 1 with reference.

I’ve never said success is just luck. It takes luck, hard work and good decisions. You need all of them. I didn’t say anything about not having wisdom to realise others have it harder, I said I have the wisdom to realise you need luck to succeed as well as hard work and good decisions.

Which you do not realise as of yet, as you disagreed vehemently with my saying luck is a factor and stated it was all hard work and good decisions.

I can’t be assuming something about you when you’ve already told me that is exactly what you think.

I suspect what will happen is most parents will find the money - the ones that can’t will put the money originally allocated for fees into buying a house in an area with the best state schools. My DD has long finished education but I know we would have paid it (begrudgingly). It’s not an easy decision to move child - do feel for the parents who may be forced to make that decision. The glee that some people seem to feel about this seems very nasty.

I am sure it’s not 100% of miners were unemployed afterwards. 😂 they wanted work, and if it had been there they would have snapped it up.

Yes, there is generational unemployment because it wasn’t a case of mines going from private to public like the students are. The demand for teachers won’t go down, like the demand for miners did.

I used them as example mostly to address the “but I’m an indie teacher and I don’t want to teach in a state school, you can’t make me” posts. I think they will find that the government doesn’t care what they want. They’ll go for teaching work where they can find it.

The miners…well for them they wanted work…but there was no demand. That is where the comparison ends.

The only “idiot” here is someone who thinks that any example must be identical to be used and fails to understand that comparisons are only between similarities.

Yep its all positive and exciting until you hit the part of the manifesto that negatively affects you then let's see if you feel the same excitement.

You’re wrong. And actually, it’s such a depressing notion to peddle that the choices we make and the paths we take are not the determining factor in our success (or otherwise). Like our lives are entirely pre determined at birth and we have no say at all.

I certainly wasn’t born into privilege or private school fees but I did aspire to be successful. And I worked very hard to realise that ambition.

No not really, i don't care that much. I mainly voted for them because of that policy, because i just got fed up with rich people on Mumsnet moaning about how hard done to they are because private school will become a tiny, tiny bit less affordable for them, as if we are all supposed to care about that, with hundreds of thousands of children living in poverty in this country. By all means, use private school but i see no reason why people who CHOOSE to pay for a luxury shouldn't be paying tax on that.

If state school is deemed to be good enough for poor working class children, it should be good enough for everyone's.

Education should not be classed as a luxury item, IMO. If you want to tax the rich, then we should be taxing assets not school children. What's the point of policy that doesn't aim to improve outcomes? As you will be aware the wealthy pay most of the tax in the UK as most people are not net contributors. There's a limit to how much you can tax the rich before they decide to take their services elsewhere. I've seen adverts from Ireland and Germany this week hoping to entice UK students to their fee paying schools. This will make no difference, it's another brexit bus.

I don’t think you should bring the miners into it, when you clearly don’t understand at all @LoremIpsumCici and anyone who tries to use an example they don’t understand is…somewhat foolish.

stirring and causing ructions is what the OP is doing! It is very obvious and not very subtle.

@LoremIpsumCici not sure where “luck” comes into it for my DH. If you can explain his luck, please enlighten me? He could of course have been born to similar such inadequate parents in a 3rd world country, in which case, there would have been no “state” to step up and “care” for him. But then, if you take it back to that level, we are all “lucky” to have been born in the Uk or any 1st world country. And the passive aggressive comment about him being able to “afford” therapy is just a reflection of your bitterness. You resent “Poor little rich kids” and also apparently those who succeed after a really shitty start and who have the means to help themselves heal, to ensure the shitty cycle of behaviour doesn’t repeat itself. That frankly says a lot about you. Would you prefer that he could not afford therapy? Surely in your lofty pursuit of the greater good, you would want people to learn from the damage done to them as children and to not visit it on others, to break the cycle which is so often repeated?
Shrieking “it’s not fair” and demanding other people have less doesn’t automatically mean you or anyone else will get “more”. And it never will.

Same for my daughters schools, the neighbouring state school has already been informed the free use of the pool / astro pitches / theatre has been terminated. Parents have been presented with the trustees and heads action plan to increase revenue / decrease costs and the removal of bursaries are also on there. Sadly that is a worry for the parents who are in receipt of a bursary now and facing either an additional 50% uplift in fee or removing their child.

I do wonder how many people so excited about the VAT on private schools are aware of the other elements of Labour's proposals? By the tumbleweed lack of commentary on mumsnet I assume not so much...this distraction that will in reality be a struggle to implement will be hiding some treasures in plain sight.

Our collaboration of schools are doing the same if it comes into play. But quite rightly so- no bursaries / scholarships/ hardship fund and no use of the facilities - but I absolutely agree with this.

And yes some seem to revel that we might struggle- but regardless of whether you stay in private or leave - you still have the money! You will have the wealth regardless and that’s a nice place to be in.

Hills Road is an exceptional sixth form. There are plenty of state school parents now panicking that their child won’t get a place (it’s selective) when the children with flawless GCSE grades apply from the (excellent) independent schools in Cambridge.

This is what we are doing. DC is at Ind school in Cambridge, and they now want to move to Hills for 6th Form. We know what grades they need for the subjects they want, and I’ll be getting a tutor in Sept to make sure they get the best possible grade at GCSE for one of the subjects which is very popular, and requires a higher GCSE grade. One of the reasons why my DC is keen to go there is because every one of his friendship group (about 10 of them) are applying.

Also, I don’t understand these people saying IS school parents will be donating money to state schools. Surely if they had money to give away, they’d just pay the VAT?

I certainly won’t be donating money to any state school. I won’t be going on more holidays, buying a kitchen or new car either. I’ll be investing it.

I can actually afford the VAT, so it’s not about the money. I just feel very strongly that my household pays more than its fair share already. Where I work I hear many of my colleagues trying to reduce their hours as pay rises take them over tax thresholds and over universal credit boundaries. There are people not paying their share on all levels of income.

Yeah, that's right. My ex really paid for our kid to be with other special needs kids because they were "certain" people. No they were just children, like ours, who couldn't manage the level in their state primary, so had to move. Smaller class sizes and specialist teaching. No EHCP. We live(d) in an area of selection, tutoring for grammars from Y3, snobbery - huge number of private schools locally. I loved our local village state primary - 1 form intake only so a good size. My child was very happy there for years and they tried to some extent to support. But funnily enough the support (ie funding) was age dependent. So my summer born AND with SEN lost out in all ways. The independents (x2) - one specialist (weak), one not, put them on a good pathway. They are now at college and thriving. That's what we need for all our children. Mine could not have coped at a state secondary - like the one I work at - fairly decent - non-selective, fairly small - approx 1150 kids including 6th form. But they do not and will not offer the flexibility in curriculum that a child with SEN needs. Let alone the real support. I genuinely believe in 10 years time there will be an increase in young people/adults with SEN who are absolutely unable to cope with life/work/education. Yes it is bad now, but the small institutions who have supported this group of young people - effectively invisible to most of you - will no longer be there. And who will take over? No-one. I am grateful my child is no longer in compulsory education.

But unless children are in year 6 or year 11, there will be no room for them in the best state schools! They will be going to 'Bash Street school' where I the pupils and staff will eat tem alive!