To think 'chav' is not an okay thing to call people?

[enternow99]

I find the use of chav on Mumsnet shocking. Is this name chavvy? Is this holiday destination chavvy? Is this outfit chavvy? Chavs moved in next door (I'm a leaseholder, they rent!!!!)

I understand its snobbiness but isn't it a bit horrible?

It's an acronym. C. H. A. V... council-housed is what we were told it stood for when I was younger. The other two words are alcoholic and violent. The word only applies to people who are all three. So how would that apply to everyone on a council estate? I never said that. I also replied to you to say that I don't consider myself a chav and I've lived on many council estates. You've misunderstood my point.

Actually I think of it slightly differently. For me chav has an aspect of aspiration and it’s a sort of attitude of looking down at the ground from quite a low branch that makes a chav.

So buying overpriced sports gear so they can look down on those who don’t bother/ can’t afford to overstretch themselves to splurge on it. Even a footballer’s wives type vibe I would see as chavvy. So money without good taste or education informing how they spend it can be chavvy - not just being on benefits . To me that latter doesn’t require you to behave like a chav. Some people are validly on benefits. It’s thinking you’re “ it” when you’ve slightly elevated yourself in some indistinct way from others. I think some of the threads that scream chav to me are the housekeeping ones extolling how they have no “ clutter” . I can just imagine … no books for sure.

That's ok, sorry I was snappy back 🙈

@Skinglow it's sad that you've read her post and this is all you've deduced from it. Do you not sympathise with what she went through? Might it shape your judgement too if you'd experienced that?

I think the acronym is probably a generalised term rather than her stating it as her personal opinion.

Chav has never meant, council house, alcoholic and violent. The fact you assume only people from council estates are 'chavs' is offensive.

Yes I don’t think it’s defined by money. And I’ve known loads of obscenely alcoholic toffs whom I couldn’t say are chavs.

I think it’s more to do with thinking you’re being posh when you’re actually quite misguided about it ( and miss target by miles …).

Well that's what it meant when I was growing up. It was a word that the teachers used to describe most of the kids at our school. The estate was featured in a documentary called Drugland. A police officer involved in the documentary came to our school and used the word (edit: and explained that's what many people called the people on that estate. That it was unfair because it stands for this...) I'm well aware - as an adult - that it has a different origin... but plenty of notable dictionaries define it as an insult to those of low class, rather than it's original meaning. Sorry you're insulted by my opinion, but to me, chav will always mean scrotey types... usually from a council estate. Please stop with your strawman because you're deliberately misunderstanding me and repeating the same thing to try and disprove my lived experience.

I agree that that's what it means to many people. I was just sharing my experience. The part about the acronym was in response to someone twisting my words.

Being a chav isn't a racist slur as it's not a race 😂

Yes, I am assuming you can tell the difference between an artistically drawn flower that has been expertly shaded by a trained tattooist and an England flag with a cock on it drawn in Dave's mates kitchen by some bloke on his 12th can of Stella?

It is still current. My teens won’t wear huge logos as apparently it’s very chav.

You a big fan of Sharm, OP?

Why do they have to be "discreet?"

To be honest on MN Hyacinth Bucket gets held up as a snob but to me the humour really lay in the fact that she was … well, sorry Hyacinth cos this will kill you, a bit of a Chav. Much as I really do love her ( and respect her desire to better herself in terms of manners etc) she definitely didn’t have effortless class.

Aww honey. How is your bingo card looking now that you’ve brought out the privilege bullshit too?

Did you swallow the buzzword dictionary? 😂

Well I’ll put up my hand and say I can’t.

To me a tat is a tat - and something I will never wrap my head around.

I’m really struggling to envisage the people described on this thread as looking classy with head-to-toe sportswear and tats. 😕

@Calliopespa interesting perspective. Clothing is tribal, and I think people do choose certain brands with a view to saying something about themselves to others. There probably is an element of looking down on the people who don't have whatever items are deemed to be aspirational within that group. But maybe that's the same for everyone, if trainer and handbag threads are anything to go by.
Clothes are a representation of us - like it or not, some brands are more popular amongst specific groups and therefore gain a reputation. No one outside of a chav's social group aspires to look like them.

Re the lack of clutter boasts on housekeeping, I suppose what constitutes clutter is subjective. Books per se aren't clutter imo, but I can see that having them piles up everywhere and not on shelves would make a house feel cluttered.

WAGS are interesting - I'd say Rebecca Vardy is chavvy but Colleen Rooney definitely not, even though socially and in class terms they are probably similar.

Being born without the genetic predisposition to obesity and in a household where you developed healthy food behaviours is a privilege.

Understanding privilege is important, it highlights how often children suffer from the lack of it. These children grow into struggling adults. It's not funny or a buzzword, it's a real issue. Often people who have it struggle to comprehend how others without it suffer. Empathy is needed.

Why you struggle to think of privilege as something beyond a buzzword is probably down to your education, upbringing, and your genetic disposition towards intellectual thinking.

I think if you are “ properly “ posh, trends tend to be longer lasting ( like generations) and driven by functionality and quality rather than label or a desire to project an image per se.

For example Burberry was adopted by Chavs as it was seen as emblematic of a certain fusty establishment type. The chavs adopted it in the spirit of thinking they could wear it and suddenly be posh because posh wasn’t about anything more than handing over a wodge of cash for a branded thing. But the types who had originally embraced it did so because gabardine of the original defining item, the trench, was a quality and serviceable fabric that supported them in the activities they wanted to embrace to live their lives to the full. By the time the trench-lining tartan pattern was on babygrows and plastic baby bottles, the brand had lost its raison d’etre ( my spellcheck wants to say rasin d’etre! 🤣) and was just branding.

The thing is, you've spent considerable effort in this reply trying to select words that are what I assume you think are funny. If only you could spend the same effort on thinking and reflecting on your internal prejudices and come to this discussion with something useful beyond mocking people.

So, who decided which of these tattoos are acceptable? You? Your friends and family? Why do you get to be the barometer of what is an acceptable tattoo?

Never been

You need the educate yourself. Honestly. I'm happy to explain if you want to hear it.

Is Sharm Chav or Council?

"So, who decided which of these tattoos are acceptable?"

No one can seriously argue that a tattoo of a cock has as much value as one of a flower, created by an actual artist. Some things just are true!

I think the term chav as has been used in British culture for approx 30 years is not a racial slur. There was some debate about it's origins but if it has origins in Romani it was never used in common British slang as a slur against the Romani people. Who's to say the usage wasn't started by Roma to describe certain gorgers?!