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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think 'chav' is not an okay thing to call people?

455 replies

enternow99 · 19/07/2024 15:11

I find the use of chav on Mumsnet shocking. Is this name chavvy? Is this holiday destination chavvy? Is this outfit chavvy? Chavs moved in next door (I'm a leaseholder, they rent!!!!)

I understand its snobbiness but isn't it a bit horrible?

OP posts:
Allfur · 19/07/2024 15:22

I thought it was a Romani word, either way it's a nasty slur

billysboy · 19/07/2024 15:22

From Cheltenham Ladies College originally

Q124 · 19/07/2024 15:22

Valeriesimpleton · 19/07/2024 15:17

The virtue signalling on MN is done by the very people that really would never dream of going to Costa Del Sol on AI because of the people, yet are offended on behalf of those exact people. It's not offensive, it does the job and we all know it.

Exactly. Everyone I know uses that word and nobody is offended.

PeppermintPorpoise · 19/07/2024 15:22

BobbyBiscuits · 19/07/2024 15:16

I certainly wouldn't use that language in real life. It seems a bit outdated. Obviously it's an insult and snobby. But there is an issue here...
How would you describe something or someone cheap and tasteless looking, rude, uncouth, antisocial, uneducated and lacking aspiration? Is there an alternative word to use for such things?

Why do you need a special nasty word to say any of that? Just use the individual words about them or the object individually if you absolutely must 🥴.

lawnseed · 19/07/2024 15:22

I think when you label people, you kind of dehumanise them and fail to see the real individual behind their outward presentation. Some kinds of people are really annoying, but whilst we're labelling them, they're probably labelling us. It's not nice being reduced to a label.

Towelmode · 19/07/2024 15:23

Maybe there is a slight age decide here between older and younger millennials?

Im a millennial but I reckon some on this thread are older.

Beezknees · 19/07/2024 15:24

Q124 · 19/07/2024 15:22

Exactly. Everyone I know uses that word and nobody is offended.

Well yeah, presumably you're not the one being called it so why would you be offended?

serialcatbuyer · 19/07/2024 15:24

Is it not just people who wear sports clothes ? I feel like it isn't a static descriptor

ABirdsEyeView · 19/07/2024 15:25

I wouldn't use it a synonym for working class, which is where the term became problematic imo. But to describe the sort of people who think the state owes them a living, who commit anti social behaviour, are generally thuggish wasters, then yes I would happily use the term 'chav'.

StoatofDisarray · 19/07/2024 15:25

Towelmode · 19/07/2024 15:15

I’m going to get the ageist accusations now 🤦‍♀️

Yeah from me, I'm afraid. I'm in my late 50s and I wouldn't use it because it's classist. I've been called a chav and an oik because of my accent and (when I cleaned toilets) my job and it's not harmless: it hurts. Class is still one of the big dividers in the country, unfortunately.

Elleherd · 19/07/2024 15:25

It is from Romani - chavo, chavi, chave and the Gaudja concept that Romani girls were cheap and tacky.

If you pronounce it properly it is a beautiful word, sadly mispronounced and abused by ignorant racists.

You can do the same with girl in English and reduce it to sound like something rejectable. You just have to want to.

Skinglow · 19/07/2024 15:25

YANBU it's used on MN to mean WC.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 19/07/2024 15:25

Towelmode · 19/07/2024 15:14

It’s a very outdated term and most young people wouldn’t use it but I think the average age on MNs skews quite old so it’s acceptable to them.

Ds 30 and Dd 18 use it sometimes with caution. Not because it’s outdated but because they don’t feel comfortable with it.

But it’s not outdated.

Gingerdancedbackwards · 19/07/2024 15:26

enternow99 · 19/07/2024 15:15

What defines a chav?

Nouveau riche
People who come into money/earn it, but have no taste. Think D and G bling, etc. All gold and prints.
Conspicuous spending
No class

DinnaeFashYersel · 19/07/2024 15:26

It's a insult so not ok unless that is your intention and then still prob not ok

Towelmode · 19/07/2024 15:27

@StoatofDisarray i don’t mean to offend I just think it’s more acceptable to certain generations because the word was more commonly used in the past.

Allfur · 19/07/2024 15:27

billysboy · 19/07/2024 15:22

From Cheltenham Ladies College originally

You sure about that?

ThistleWitch · 19/07/2024 15:28

Teentaxidriver · 19/07/2024 15:20

Chav, or Cheltenham Average. Coined by the ladies of Cheltenham Ladies College to denote a particular type of local.

Thought it was Council House And Violent - although that may have been a retcon?

Elleherd · 19/07/2024 15:29

ThistleWitch · 19/07/2024 15:28

Thought it was Council House And Violent - although that may have been a retcon?

No they're bacronims created to excuse the use.

TinkerTiger · 19/07/2024 15:30

enternow99 · 19/07/2024 15:12

If you think it's fine to use, do you also say it to your children? Oh ignore them they're chavs!

I find swear words ok to use, but don't use them when speaking to children, HTH.

ThistleWitch · 19/07/2024 15:30

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav

Etymology
Opinion is divided on the origin of the term. "Chav" may have its origins in the Romani word "chavi" ("child") or "chaval" ("boy"), which later came to mean "man". The word "chavvy" has existed since at least the 19th century; lexicographer Eric Partridge mentions it in his 1950 dictionary of slang and unconventional English, giving its date of origin as c. 1860.

The word in its current pejorative usage is recorded by the Oxford English Dictionary as first used in a Usenet forum in 1998 and first used in a newspaper in 2002. By 2005, the term had become widely used to refer to a type of anti-social, uncultured youth, portrayed as wearing excessive flashy jewellery, white athletic shoes, baseball caps, and sham designer clothes. Similarly, girls are portrayed as commonly wearing clothes which expose their midriffs.

In his 2011 book, Chavs: The Demonization of the Working Class, Owen Jones argued that the word is an attack on the poor.[12] In the 2010 book Stab Proof Scarecrows by Lance Manley, it was surmised that "chav" was an abbreviation for "council housed and violent". Others regard this as a backronym. This interpretation of the word was used in a 2012 public statement by rapper Plan B as he spoke out to oppose the use of the term.

In 2013 linguist David Crystal said on BBC Learning English:

People talk about "chav behaviour" or "chav insults" and that sort of thing. Oh, don't believe the popular etymologies that you read sometimes in the press and on websites. I saw one the other day, people said, "It's an acronym, 'chav', from 'council house and violent'"—well, no, it isn't, that was made up in recent times.

It has also been suggested that the term is derived from the name of the town of Chatham, in Kent, but the Oxford English Dictionary thinks this is "probably a later rationalization".

Chav - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav

Towelmode · 19/07/2024 15:31

Nouveau riche
People who come into money/earn it, but have no taste. Think D and G bling, etc. All gold and prints.
Conspicuous spending
No class

Why is it less classy to have earned your own money as opposed to tracing it back generations? Particularly when some of that old money was obtained by nefarious means! It’s outdated as I said, plenty of old money like to flash a label & bling.

VolvoFan · 19/07/2024 15:31

Doesn't chav come from the amalgamation of the place names Chatham and Faversham? That might be wrong. If you came from either of those areas, that's what you were, a chav. The word has come to mean something derogatory with how it's been overused and abused over the years. I don't personally find it offensive. I used to be a chav, and I hated it then because it epitomised what I was, I fully own it now. I'm not a chav anymore, thank God.

ABirdsEyeView · 19/07/2024 15:32

I wouldn't use it to describe nouveau riche and I think that taste is subjective. I'd probably use the term 'tacky' to describe those people who like to show off their money or brag. Tacky can apply whatever class a person is from. Being upper class doesn't always mean having class and being working class doesn't mean you lack it.

5128gap · 19/07/2024 15:32

BobbyBiscuits · 19/07/2024 15:16

I certainly wouldn't use that language in real life. It seems a bit outdated. Obviously it's an insult and snobby. But there is an issue here...
How would you describe something or someone cheap and tasteless looking, rude, uncouth, antisocial, uneducated and lacking aspiration? Is there an alternative word to use for such things?

I can't imagine a situation where it would be necessary to use all of those words to describe a person. If a person is unintelligent or anti social and you need to make reference to that for whatever reason, then those are the words for it. Your opinion of their appearance isn't relevant or of any importance so you dont need a term for that.

Using a term like 'chavvy' isn't very intelligent in itself given there is no agreed definition. Always better to use the precise and correct word for what you need to describe, rather than some lazy generic insult.

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