Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think 'chav' is not an okay thing to call people?

455 replies

enternow99 · 19/07/2024 15:11

I find the use of chav on Mumsnet shocking. Is this name chavvy? Is this holiday destination chavvy? Is this outfit chavvy? Chavs moved in next door (I'm a leaseholder, they rent!!!!)

I understand its snobbiness but isn't it a bit horrible?

OP posts:
Beginningless · 19/07/2024 18:19

I agree with you OP and am disheartened to see how few do. There has always been people experiencing deprivation whom some sectors of society view as an ‘underclass’, without any apparent awareness of the ways they themselves contribute to keeping the gap between the haves and have nots. A poorly worded description there but hopefully you get what I mean.

chav1 · 19/07/2024 18:21

mumbo34 · 19/07/2024 18:18

My stance is that being a chav isn't a class issue or something you need to escape from.
Just don't be a dick. It's really simple.
I'm not saying it's a nice word, read my earlier post. I'm saying it's no different to the hundreds of other derogatory terms dished out daily. Of course prejudice isn't ok but it exists in every single walk of life. Being a chav is something that can be changed as it's based on behaviour not age, sex, race or anything else.
That's my view.

If it's a derogatory term, time to stop using it though, and discouraging those that do from a now better informed viewpoint?

Riapia · 19/07/2024 18:22

BobbyBiscuits · 19/07/2024 15:16

I certainly wouldn't use that language in real life. It seems a bit outdated. Obviously it's an insult and snobby. But there is an issue here...
How would you describe something or someone cheap and tasteless looking, rude, uncouth, antisocial, uneducated and lacking aspiration? Is there an alternative word to use for such things?

Essex?
😉😁😁

NastySting · 19/07/2024 18:22

mumbo34 · 19/07/2024 17:48

Ludicrous to compare the n word and the word chav. Utterly incomparable.
You can't help the colour of your skin, you can choose your behaviour. And behaviour is what chavviness comes down to. It's not about wealth.

Growing up I acted like a chav. Wore tracksuits and loads of garish bling, hung around in parks drinking cheap cider etc. Thankfully I grew up and realised the error of my ways. But for a while in my youth, I was a chav. And it was down to my behaviour not my social class (which hasn't changed).

Exactly this, being a chav is something you can do something about (other features, like the colour of your skin are for the most part not something you can change).
Being a chav isn't entirely about what you look like, I see plenty of lovely looking people dressed head to toe in sportswear, some of them even have discreet, well done tattoos! They are not chavs....Being a true chav involves certain behaviours, usually the more antisocial the better. For example, walking around town dressed in sportswear with a bottle of water and enjoying a leisurely day shopping = not a chav. Walking around town in sportswear so see through I can tell your underwear should be white but is now grey whilst carrying a can of Kestrel and screaming at your kids = definitely a chav!
The only way you could possibly be offended is if you have anti social tendencies and have a penchant for discoloured underwear on display at all times?

enternow99 · 19/07/2024 18:24

Beginningless · 19/07/2024 18:19

I agree with you OP and am disheartened to see how few do. There has always been people experiencing deprivation whom some sectors of society view as an ‘underclass’, without any apparent awareness of the ways they themselves contribute to keeping the gap between the haves and have nots. A poorly worded description there but hopefully you get what I mean.

I find it very interesting to see this attitude on Mumsnet. They'll jump down anyone's throat who uses Karen as a descriptive slur but they have no awareness whatsoever. Super defensive also!

The post from this morning that sparked this post was about how sharm alsheikh is too chavvy, and it's not to the OPs 'vibe'. It got me wondering how someone would use a slur like that with such a huge lack of awareness of how it makes them seem classless.

OP posts:
arethereanyleftatall · 19/07/2024 18:24

Needmorelego · 19/07/2024 18:09

@arethereanyleftatall but clearly people don't know "EXACTLY" what it means because on this thread people are giving very different descriptions of what they think it means.

Actually, they're not. All the posters who understand what it means are all describing the same type of anti social behaviour.

Your fake confusion is to include the posters who don't like the term and are pretending it's to do with finances. Which it isn't.

chav1 · 19/07/2024 18:26

But not all "chavs" are anti social...?

Willyoujustbequiet · 19/07/2024 18:30

chav1 · 19/07/2024 18:17

If you look up the word charva, you'll see the origin / etymology...its akin.

It's definitely child/youth related in my neck of the woods whereas most posts on here don't seem to say the same.

Its longstanding dialect which far predates the 90s use of 'chav'. Its a commonly used term.

enternow99 · 19/07/2024 18:30

NastySting · 19/07/2024 18:22

Exactly this, being a chav is something you can do something about (other features, like the colour of your skin are for the most part not something you can change).
Being a chav isn't entirely about what you look like, I see plenty of lovely looking people dressed head to toe in sportswear, some of them even have discreet, well done tattoos! They are not chavs....Being a true chav involves certain behaviours, usually the more antisocial the better. For example, walking around town dressed in sportswear with a bottle of water and enjoying a leisurely day shopping = not a chav. Walking around town in sportswear so see through I can tell your underwear should be white but is now grey whilst carrying a can of Kestrel and screaming at your kids = definitely a chav!
The only way you could possibly be offended is if you have anti social tendencies and have a penchant for discoloured underwear on display at all times?

So by your logic:

Lulu lemon + water+ leisure time = not chav

worn out & discoloured clothing +drink in a can+ difficult child = chav = anti social

OP posts:
chav1 · 19/07/2024 18:31

Willyoujustbequiet · 19/07/2024 18:30

It's definitely child/youth related in my neck of the woods whereas most posts on here don't seem to say the same.

Its longstanding dialect which far predates the 90s use of 'chav'. Its a commonly used term.

The term chav predates the 1990s...look up the etymology of both you'll see a very long history.

arethereanyleftatall · 19/07/2024 18:34

For me, they are @chav1
That would be what the word describes. But it would be in different ways.
So it might be antisocial by

*yelling at your kid on the street
*parking your personalised number plated SUV on double yellows
*loud music with tins of beer at the public park
*getting a phone call from school about your dc behaviour, and immediately deciding it is not them at fault, it's the other kid
*going on holiday to Spain and not even knowing the word Gracias.
*having a full on fight with your fella at the pub and throwing a pint over each other

Willyoujustbequiet · 19/07/2024 18:34

chav1 · 19/07/2024 18:31

The term chav predates the 1990s...look up the etymology of both you'll see a very long history.

Yes but it wasn't mainstream/media until the 90s. That's what I meant. I had always known it to be our dialect as I'd never heard anyone out of the area use the term charva. Tbh I still haven't.

leadingbydesign · 19/07/2024 18:34

It's a horrible, classist word.

Needmorelego · 19/07/2024 18:36

@arethereanyleftatall I am not being "fake" confused at all.
I mean some people have said Boris Johnson and Prince Andrew could be described as "chav" - and I don't understand that at all going by what I PERSONALLY have always believed "chav" was meant to mean.
I have never known it as an "anti-social" meaning.
I think it's a horrible term because people use it as an insult.

MyOtherWheelchairIsABroomstick · 19/07/2024 18:38

A couple of years ago I would have agreed because I took it personally. I grew up on council estates. My family was the scruffy one. 1990s/2000s and we lived in absolute poverty despite my stepmother being disabled by depression and my dad driving a mobility car when he wasn'troaming the streets pissed up. No carpets, no clothes except school uniform, no food except school dinners sometimes. We had bin bags of rubbish all over the garden and my 'parents' drank all night, playing rubbish music from their jukebox (yep... they had a fruit machine in their living room too, which was financed in the finest unpaid hire purchase would buy). They kept us around long enough to keep claiming child benefit then chucked us out and presumably drank themselves to death. They weren't chavs in the sense that people think it's all Burberry and gold chains... just selfish alcoholics. I'm the eldest of 13 kids. My brother would beat me because he was my dad's punching bag and then go out and rob everyone's dust caps or siphon diesel for farmers. There was always drama. It was a horrible childhood, lots of domestic violence. Council house, alcoholic, violent - C H A V. So we were chavs and I disliked the word.

I spent years working hard and got myself out of poverty. Well, we are technically on the breadline but I'm breaking the cycle for my children. I know I'll never be rich or a high earner. I've been paying bills since I was 16, at a time when everyone at school was being given car keys and had a family home to stay in. I'm about 10years behind most people I know, financially. Due to working with older, more mature people and having to change the way I spoke and acted to "fit in", and doing well at school, college, uni, - I've always been surrounded by successful, better off people who would be horrified by the things that went on where I grew up. I just don't mention it. Not because they would judge me but I find it embarrassing. My "family" call me a snob and always bring some embarrassing drama to my door when we are in touch, like the police looking for them or taking out credit in my name. I'm happy to be called a snob to protect my family.

Chavs aren't salt of the earth sorts of people. They see people better off as their enemy. Not in a socialist/communist sort of way. Anyone who uses this site and has empathy or common decency would be eaten alive if you had to be around them.

After surrounding myself with "normal" people, owning my home, then renting privately, working, enjoying life... I started to think that I had been harsh and maybe a be snobby. I discovered socialism and started volunteering. I thought that maybe people who seemed rough around the edges were sort of "cheeky chappies" who had fallen on hard times. I too thought that chavs no longer existed.

However... I became disabled and when I couldn't get into my home I was given emergency housing in a council estate. I moved as soon as I could. I would rather die than go back there. It was a lawless cesspit. I was relentlessly harassed by my next door neighbours. A couple of drug users and their 4 adult children, none of them working and at home all day playing "gabber" music through their tinny phone speakers rested on the window sills. Drinking and smoking weed in the street like Shameless. Why do they all sit at the front of their house? I did my garden. They encouraged their ridiculous dogs to shit there and trampled it all. Threw cig ends and chewing gum everywhere. Footballs would hit my my house 100 times an evening until I stopped answering the door as I never knew if it was a person or a ball, or unsupervised kids playing knock a door run and I would get in my wheelchair for nothing. Instead I put a ring camera up. That's like a crime to these people. My nickname was then "the grass" as they couldn't use the side of my house to sell pills. They stole off me. Kids would climb over my back gate and just wander around my house like they knew me. Never put their bins out then would steal mine and not put those out either. They were all new builds with meter cupboard doors and letter boxes hanging off. Within a year it just looked like a bin. When I moved, kids were eating old freezer food from my skip while their mums [who were all single but had male sofa surfer friends for benefit purposes] would sit on their phones smoking on garden chairs and shouting across the street at everyone walking past. It was fucking awful. I am sorry to swear but while anyone is defending that kind of behaviour it makes me so angry. There were 22 houses on my street and 14 of them were on Homeswapper. All decent people desperate to move away.

Chav is the kindest word to use because I can think of A LOT worse. Would you want to live on an estate like that? Everyone thinks they're a kind, accepting people-person until the first night in your lovely new house the baghead next door slams her bedroom window 20 times and calls your 8yr old a c*nt for opening her curtains to look at the garden. I sued the housing association, won, and used the money to do up my new house. If you dont believe me about how bad it is then maybe join a social housing swap group and see how many put "no estates" on their ad.

arethereanyleftatall · 19/07/2024 18:39

Well yes @Needmorelego it is used as an insult as it describes horrible behaviour! Whether that person is rich or poor.

mumbo34 · 19/07/2024 18:41

chav1 · 19/07/2024 18:26

But not all "chavs" are anti social...?

Edited

This is where I would disagree. Being a chav is about behaviour above all else and anti social behaviour is kind of what makes them a chav.

CostelloJones · 19/07/2024 18:42

I like to call them the vulgar, common, weak, licentious crowd

so much classier babes

chav1 · 19/07/2024 18:44

Willyoujustbequiet · 19/07/2024 18:34

Yes but it wasn't mainstream/media until the 90s. That's what I meant. I had always known it to be our dialect as I'd never heard anyone out of the area use the term charva. Tbh I still haven't.

In Romany roots "charvo/a/chavvie" was not prejorative, it is linked to children and youths and not area-based but I appreciate there are communities that absorbed it and later "chav" was utilised as a slur.

Needmorelego · 19/07/2024 18:44

@MyOtherWheelchairIsABroomstick the environment you have described is not what I would I associate with the word "chav" though.
That's my whole point to many of my posts - people seem to use it as an insult but not always in the way and meaning the same thing.

arethereanyleftatall · 19/07/2024 18:44

You should write a book @MyOtherWheelchairIsABroomstick

Brilliant post.

NastySting · 19/07/2024 18:45

enternow99 · 19/07/2024 18:30

So by your logic:

Lulu lemon + water+ leisure time = not chav

worn out & discoloured clothing +drink in a can+ difficult child = chav = anti social

Yep, but don't forget the drink in the can is alcohol and most people don't scream at their kids no matter how difficult they are. I notice you missed a few key details in your simplified version of events...

Needmorelego · 19/07/2024 18:46

@arethereanyleftatall I've not said anything about rich vs poor.
As I have said - the meaning I have always assumed it meant isn't anything to do with anti social behaviour.

chav1 · 19/07/2024 18:48

Maybe posters could ask one of the "chavs" on here what it means...

Skinglow · 19/07/2024 18:51

MyOtherWheelchairIsABroomstick · 19/07/2024 18:38

A couple of years ago I would have agreed because I took it personally. I grew up on council estates. My family was the scruffy one. 1990s/2000s and we lived in absolute poverty despite my stepmother being disabled by depression and my dad driving a mobility car when he wasn'troaming the streets pissed up. No carpets, no clothes except school uniform, no food except school dinners sometimes. We had bin bags of rubbish all over the garden and my 'parents' drank all night, playing rubbish music from their jukebox (yep... they had a fruit machine in their living room too, which was financed in the finest unpaid hire purchase would buy). They kept us around long enough to keep claiming child benefit then chucked us out and presumably drank themselves to death. They weren't chavs in the sense that people think it's all Burberry and gold chains... just selfish alcoholics. I'm the eldest of 13 kids. My brother would beat me because he was my dad's punching bag and then go out and rob everyone's dust caps or siphon diesel for farmers. There was always drama. It was a horrible childhood, lots of domestic violence. Council house, alcoholic, violent - C H A V. So we were chavs and I disliked the word.

I spent years working hard and got myself out of poverty. Well, we are technically on the breadline but I'm breaking the cycle for my children. I know I'll never be rich or a high earner. I've been paying bills since I was 16, at a time when everyone at school was being given car keys and had a family home to stay in. I'm about 10years behind most people I know, financially. Due to working with older, more mature people and having to change the way I spoke and acted to "fit in", and doing well at school, college, uni, - I've always been surrounded by successful, better off people who would be horrified by the things that went on where I grew up. I just don't mention it. Not because they would judge me but I find it embarrassing. My "family" call me a snob and always bring some embarrassing drama to my door when we are in touch, like the police looking for them or taking out credit in my name. I'm happy to be called a snob to protect my family.

Chavs aren't salt of the earth sorts of people. They see people better off as their enemy. Not in a socialist/communist sort of way. Anyone who uses this site and has empathy or common decency would be eaten alive if you had to be around them.

After surrounding myself with "normal" people, owning my home, then renting privately, working, enjoying life... I started to think that I had been harsh and maybe a be snobby. I discovered socialism and started volunteering. I thought that maybe people who seemed rough around the edges were sort of "cheeky chappies" who had fallen on hard times. I too thought that chavs no longer existed.

However... I became disabled and when I couldn't get into my home I was given emergency housing in a council estate. I moved as soon as I could. I would rather die than go back there. It was a lawless cesspit. I was relentlessly harassed by my next door neighbours. A couple of drug users and their 4 adult children, none of them working and at home all day playing "gabber" music through their tinny phone speakers rested on the window sills. Drinking and smoking weed in the street like Shameless. Why do they all sit at the front of their house? I did my garden. They encouraged their ridiculous dogs to shit there and trampled it all. Threw cig ends and chewing gum everywhere. Footballs would hit my my house 100 times an evening until I stopped answering the door as I never knew if it was a person or a ball, or unsupervised kids playing knock a door run and I would get in my wheelchair for nothing. Instead I put a ring camera up. That's like a crime to these people. My nickname was then "the grass" as they couldn't use the side of my house to sell pills. They stole off me. Kids would climb over my back gate and just wander around my house like they knew me. Never put their bins out then would steal mine and not put those out either. They were all new builds with meter cupboard doors and letter boxes hanging off. Within a year it just looked like a bin. When I moved, kids were eating old freezer food from my skip while their mums [who were all single but had male sofa surfer friends for benefit purposes] would sit on their phones smoking on garden chairs and shouting across the street at everyone walking past. It was fucking awful. I am sorry to swear but while anyone is defending that kind of behaviour it makes me so angry. There were 22 houses on my street and 14 of them were on Homeswapper. All decent people desperate to move away.

Chav is the kindest word to use because I can think of A LOT worse. Would you want to live on an estate like that? Everyone thinks they're a kind, accepting people-person until the first night in your lovely new house the baghead next door slams her bedroom window 20 times and calls your 8yr old a c*nt for opening her curtains to look at the garden. I sued the housing association, won, and used the money to do up my new house. If you dont believe me about how bad it is then maybe join a social housing swap group and see how many put "no estates" on their ad.

So you think all people who live on Council estates are chavs? Is that what you are saying?