To think the judge was right to throw the book at Just Stop Oil?

[StripedPiggy]

Five Just Stop Oil activists, including leader & XR founder Roger Hallam have been sentenced to up to 5 years in jail for blocking the M25 & other main roads.
Their intention was to cause gridlock on roads in the South East. The disruption they caused resulted in people missing medical appointments, flights & business meetings.

Well done to that judge. The criminal justice system is right to pass serious sentences on these fanatics which will act as a strong deterrent to others who might try to cause mass disruption, and put people’s lives in danger, to further a political agenda, whatever it might be.

Disruption is a part of protest. It’s how you get people to notice you are protesting.

People may notice the protest but what good is that when they dont win the support of the majority

As we can see here, they will have people applauding the fact they get locked up cos people really dont like their day to day life being impacted

Okay I’ll be the one that asks the question.

The funny-looking one with the jumper. Is that an odd looking woman, or a bloke in woman face?

Incidentally a good article:

thecritic.co.uk/the-just-stop-oil-sentences-were-just/

I’m an environmentalist too but I agree with the sentences. The protests were indirectly violent as they caused loss of life due to inability of emergency services to respond and also damage due to inability of utilities to respond. Massive disruption like that is worse than individual cases of violence in my opinion.

You are right about belligerence of the willfully ignorant, but you must have seen that the willfully ignorant don't respond well to what they perceived as bullying/intimidation. In fact, they'll use it as another excuse to refuse to listen.
And that's where this sort of protest has a negative effect. People dig their heels in and there's a backlash.

We are a population struggling post-COVID, cost of living, etc. People are tired. They've had enough of being, as they might perceived it, told off like children at every turn. Can't say this, can't do that, can't even drive down the bloody road in peace. What do I pay my taxes for, and on and on.
It might seem ridiculous to you (and me, if I am honest) to behave like this when the world's up the environmental swanny, but right now, this minute, people are more worried about the non-existence of dentists, the fact that it takes weeks to see a doctor, the length of time it takes ambulances to arrive, the cost of heating and eating. Some bozos making life TODAY that bit harder than it already is aren't going to win friends and influence people.
And the problem is, this growing number of people who have had enough aren't quiet. They do their own research, and we all know you can find 'evidence' to support the most ridiculous argument these days.
Public support matters. Now more than ever. The fact that so many, not just on this thread but elsewhere support the ludicrous sentence is worrying. It means people aren't hearing the message, only seeing the action. It's not a good plan to carry on regardless, with the attitude that stupid people will eventually listen if we shout louder and cause more trouble. They won't.

Well, for one thing, it's not about that day that the five have been jailed, and I don't think that incident even involved them.
Also, there's some doubt that JSO actually did cause loss of life that day, as this article explains -

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/just-stop-oil-dartford-ambulance-not-delayed-m20-accident/

Also, Boris Johnson and the Tory government caused loss of life with their mishandling of the pandemic, and with their years-long persecution of the poor and vulnerable - are they in jail? No, living it up on large salaries. Tony Blair forced Britain into an illegal war that caused untold loss of life - is he in jail? No! He's the celebrated darling of Keir Starmer and the new government, and a multi-millionaire.
But earnest well-meaning deeply caring and committed peaceful protesters (even if I disagree with their methods) are given a collective total of 21 years. The word injustice doesn't even come close.

I’m not at all convinced this group are using the best tactics, but I think it’s disingenuous when people say these sentences don’t compromise the right to protest , because protesting is different to causing disruption..

Until the water company bosses get the same jail sentences, this is a grossly disproportionate sentence for peaceful activism.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/19/just-stop-oil-tactics-prison-chris-packham

A good article 💚

The punitive sentence means the girl is going to miss her brother's wedding.
The irony - it's hilarious.
Perhaps her family can just pretend she's in a traffic jam instead of banged up, exactly where she should be.

I thought that. Her mother is tone deaf.

It wasn’t peaceful activism because a lady suffered medical injury (I read that here).

I haven't RTFT but for those who feel sorry for these hateful, malignant little germs; Her group caused the death of a stroke victim (strokes is a particular situation where every minute counts) in an ambulance that was blocked!

Also someone fighting an aggressive form of cancer missed their appointment at a cancer clinic and had to wait two months for another appointment. That was as good as they were able to get for another appointment.

These people are murderers basically. Maggots. How would YOU feel, if it were your mother who died in that ambulance? Or YOUR mother or daughter or sister who had an aggressive form of cancer, stopped them from attending an important appointment, and then had to wait a further TWO....MONTHS for a new one? Because some middle class to upper class rich and bored ill brought up spoiled brat (and almost all of them are rich or at least middle class, the Cressida creature's father is a director of operas around the UK and she went to an elite private school) blocked your ambulance or cancer transport? Huh? How would you feel? What if it was your daughter who missed her chemo appointment?

I also read the blockage caused two cars to collide, one man had a heart attack in the blockae, and a mother needing to get her sick child to hospital begged and pleaded to be let through. They refused. The leader of this group proudly said he would refuse an ambulance to go through and "feel no guilt". As the daughter of someone who has MS and has a serious lung disease and has had to have CPR in the back of an ambulance and has been clinically dead 3 times, and as someone who is facing breast cancer treatment myself, I don't care how angry or violent I come across on this; these scum either need a bullet to the head or kept isolated from society permanently. She and this group are basically murderers! 4 years for this is not enough! Imo it should be a minimum of 15 years. And murder and manslaughter charges. FFS, 4 years is outrageously pitiful. The (LETHAL) flow on effects from their stunt should at least have them up on manslaughter charges. At the very least.

And Cressida's trashy mother who didn't do her job as a mother and raise her properly, is now whingeing that her daughter will miss her brothers wedding! Oh boo fucking hoo! As the below showed, many others missed funerals due to her stunt, a man missed his father's funeral and said he'd never forgive the group. Others missed weddings. Many are saying they should find the date and address and details of the wedding and stage an impromptu 'Just Stop Oil' blockade near the brother's wedding facility. I bet her family would be screaming if they couldn't make her brother's wedding!

That people feel sorry for these lifeforms from the sewer is maddening. That people actually believe any of them care about the environment, shows how gullible people are. These shallow narcissistic sociopaths don't even actually care about the environment, they never did, that's a cover; they are simply bored little rich kids who can't graffiti or anything lower class like that, so this is how they destroy and damage society without making daddy look too bad. And being part of something, being part of anything, is important to these kids. They don't particularly care what it is. These maggots have no use or worth to society. Removing them and isolating them permanently from civilised society is the safest thing for innocent civilised society and for the environment. Sentencing impact remarks:

Your extremely unpleasant post is chock full of so many total and utter factual inaccuracies that I just don't have the energy to address them individually.
But I'm curious to know where you're getting your 'information' from?
As I've stated several times up thread, and on other threads about this, I don't agree with the actions of Just Stop Oil. But, these sentences are beyond ludicrous.
Some of the posts around here are mental!
This bonkers anti-protest legislation was brought into being by Priti Patel, Suella Braverman and the other extremely right-wing authoritarian Tory ghouls in power at the time. You cannot support this unless you're also pretty far-right. I'm hoping Labour will have the moral courage to reverse it, but I don't have much hope in Keir Starmer and co, as they seem similarly authoritarian. I'm glad some of the Labour left, such as Clive Lewis, are speaking out.

Anyway, you want to talk about murder? Look no further than the very government who brought these Draconian laws in! 14 years of misery, - persecution of the poor, a housing crisis, a collapsing NHS and on and on. Think about that.

With so many people in Britain supporting these insane prison sentences, I just despair for our future. I really do. I feel so sorry for babies being born today. What a future they face, unless we act fast to address the climate emergency. Heartbreaking 😔

This.

Strikes are there to disrupt and to raise awareness. But also to gain public sympathy and support through that awareness.

Strikes fail and are broken when they have a lack of public support.

Ultimately I think the biggest issue with Just Stop Oil is not their cause, but the fact that the type of disruption they are making is going to make it harder to get much needed public support for change.

They risk green policies, particularly stricter or more far reaching ones being thought of as the result of Just Stop Oil pressure and that will make the public more resistant to already difficult policy.

Environmentalists need to bring the public along. It's essential due to the nature of the issue. Change on this scale needs the public to be behind it fully. Just Stop Oil risk public backlash which would create further mass disruption and delays to change.

Not to mention that these people didn't care if their actions killed people, because their mentality was if we don't do this more people will die. I disagree with that because it alienated people and that will delay and hinder change.

If you protest you have to understand the point about getting the balance right between being disruptive but winning support through awareness and just pissing off people, increasing awareness but alienating them rather than winning more support.

Protests are about putting pressure on government via public support. Not causing chaos and a breakdown in civilian life. That route leads to anarchy and mass civic disorder if it becomes apparent that the government lacks the ability to maintain stability. It's something that destabilises countries. Mass civic disorder can lead to revolution and civil war. Now, these are anarchists who perhaps ultimately want to overthrow the government through messy revolution. Revolutions cause mass disruptions to things like food supply and health care never mind loss of life more directly. They usually take countries backwards before they can move forward because they trigger wealthy educated people to leave to seek political and economic stability. This would allow make it harder to change course on climate. Not easier because you've now got a bunch of eco-warriors in charge. They are still going to face resistance to change because the public priority is always going to be current access to food, energy, housing and work. Anything that disrupts that makes the public harder to manage day to day.

That's why it's been harsh. Because of that. Because of the direct effects which caused physical harms to people. Because of the potential to destabilise on a massive scale.

These idiots don't understand this. They don't understand they are harming their own agenda. Because they are out of touch with the reality of everyone else.

No thanks.

If there were inaccuracies, you could address one. Even one. Every single thing I said is factual, and backed up by actual reports and the judges words.

You appear to take against the sentences because they were brought into being by a tory government. That's all. Full stop. That's your reason. Well I don't give a fuck if they were brought in by Sponge Bob Squarepants or by a zombie. I really don't give a flying neon fuck who brought it in. It could be the Greens or the Binface thing whatever it is party. The fact is, the sentence is there for the judge, and it was the correct albeit manifestly inadequate, sentence. Anyone who attempted to appeal it would have the overwhelming majority of civilised society against them.

Your whataboutery is pitiful and imo, morally bankrupt. You don't care about all about the woman who died of a stroke. You don't care at all about the other 2 who died in the blockade. You DON'T CARE that someone with an aggressive form of cancer had to be put back for two months.

You, like those, don't give a fig about the environment, nor human lives. You only care about being seen to rebel. Your views are privileged views, and morally repugnant. If someone in your family lost two months of their cancer battle, would you even care then? I don't think you even capable of caring. You should reflect on your views, because they are abhorrent, repugnant, and absolutely disgusting. You really should be ashamed of yourself. That you actually think you are right in not caring about the DEATHS these people have caused, is rather sociopathic.

Protests done properly don't cause disruption. Disruption = violence, by it's very definition. Protesting peacefully on the side of a road with placards does not cause disruption.

Labour have said no such thing. Well, the Barrett box is probably true as they've not said anything about improving the woeful level of building quality but they have talked about grey belt land which is stuff like disused petrol station sites that happen to be in the green belt.

And I don't think it's up to the climate protesters to come up with solutions, that's up to the elected government and their well paid civil servants to figure out.

I really don't think disruption = violence.

Violence is where someone is injured or dies.

Disruption is inconvenience.

And yes I know that some people missed appointments etc but that happens when people go on strike as well. The only difference is that it is planned and so you may be able to work around it eg if the railways are on strike. But not if the doctors themselves strike.

I agree OP. If you read the judgement and see their actual intentions and past behaviour, and the fact they were on bail, it’s clear why the Judge acted as he did.

I also saw interviews with some activists after and their utter sense of entitlement was breath taking. They genuinely thought all the suffering they caused was worth it.
Well now they have a chance to suffer themselves for their cause, but instead of thinking, ‘it is worth it’ they are outraged. Utter hypocrites.

👏 Brilliant post.

The thing with the just stop oil lot is that they probably don’t care about climate change…they just like doing stunts like this because it makes them feel important and “special”. They’re anarchists. If the government brought in a load of draconian laws to stop climate change such as limiting number of births, or banning meat and dairy, or banning cars or whatever then I’d bet my last dollar they’d just be protesting against that instead 🤷‍♀️

"...because the public priority is always going to be current access to food, energy, housing and work."

But RedToothbrush, where does 'the public' begin and end? Who is 'the public'?

I find it painfully distressing that there are men, women and children for whom anthropogenic climate change is curtailing access to said food, energy, housing and work ‐they are members of asylum-seeking families I work with, still trying to slog it out in their countries of origin where things are now increasingly too hot, to wet, to dry or too dangerous, on account of conflict arising as a result of aforementioned access.

Are these people not also 'the public'?

Where does our responsibility toward ensuring the safety and well-being of others, irrespective of geographical location, begin and end?

It doesn't need saying as we all know it, but it really is the lifestyle choices of citizens of Western growth economies which is inordinately impacting citizens in much less developed parts of the world. And we think it is our right to continue to live and consume a far, far greater portion of the planets resources, as we have grown accustomed. How do we even begin to crack this mindset? We should feel as distressed at the deaths of those suffering the impacts of climate breakdown elsewhere as we rightly are at those who have suffered and, in some instances, died as a result of climate activism in the UK. Both, sadly, entirely preventable.

@Grumpy12345, you really are making some big assumptions there. Roger Hallam, if you have really paid attention, comes out strongly in defense of democracy, and is attempting to highlight how the climate emergency is the greatest threat to democracy going. This is pretty obvious. The liberties and rights we take for granted in a constitutional democracy will hang by a thread when the inevitable happens and resource-scarcity reframe priorities.

Many people seem to find it incomprehensible that someone might care so passionately about the natural world and the living beings who depend on it on a global scale that they might deliberately inconvenience themselves in order to effect change, let alone incur fines, criminal records and custodial sentences. Curiously, I have found that in other countries, this is not such a wild leap of imagination as it seems to be here.