pervy bil & dc, how to stop him staring, wwyd?

[strongandenduringfriendships]

Live next-door to in-laws, they aren't married but have been together a number of years. Don't have a good relationship with them which is exacerbated by behaviours from him that I don't like, racist remarks, binge drinking, anger management issues &bullying, living in a tip, so I keep completely out of the way & avoid wherever possible. However dd age 18 is very pretty & now he is staring at her obviously, (it may be to intimidate, I don't know as he is such an unpleasant character). Want to keep the peace however I really don't want dd to feel uncomfortable at her own home. Issues in the past have never been resolved well, sil has previously said 'just don't wind him up' .... Any advice?

No woman ever has to be nice to a pervert. You can call him out and use any language you like. Your DH should be telling him it stops now and if he ever leers at your DD again he shouldn’t hold back on talking him what will happen.

I would be afraid of antagonising a man who is known to be volatile and have anger issues, and I definitely wouldn't be encouraging my teenage daughter to respond to his staring with 'witty' put downs. God knows how he could react. If OP truly thinks this man is a risk to her child, she should contact the police. If not, she and her daughter should just avoid him at all costs.

Can you not move? Why do you live next door to someone you hate so much?

You can try this, and practice other phrases too and it might work. But from what you’ve said about him, it seems unlikely. He isn’t ashamed of doing it, is he? He doesn’t care that your DD doesn’t like it (it might even make it better for him if she voices that indignation). He meets your reasonable requests with nastiness. He has been like this for years. There’s no reason to think you will be able to change him.

It’s probably worth a try if your DD is up for it as it’s pretty much cost free. But if this bothers your DD you should probably look at other ways of dealing with it that mean he isn’t able to leer.

Could she use an entrance he doesn’t have access to? Could you have a Ring doorbell or something so she can see if he’s there? Could she have a large piece of cardboard with a cartoon of BiL looking like a sad wanker that she holds up between them as she passes him?

I would call it out - directly to him and with DH support. In front of SiL so that there is no misunderstanding. Pervy can turn to dangerous very quickly in the wrong set of circumstances. He is a creep.

But you live next door!!? Wow can’t you move

You are all already no contact.
So I wouldn’t say anything at all, no clever retorts or smart comments as that won’t work from a young girl and that’s what he wants anyway …to make her embarrassed.
He sounds like a dangerous character and you can’t trust him at all.

Tell her to hurry past his staring eyes or to call you in advance of her return home so that you can go to meet her and accompany her. Or vary the times she leaves the house and comes home. It’s best for her not to give eye contact or say a word. Ignore him completely as if he doesn’t exist.

If you feel he’s actually repeatedly lying in wait for her then contact the police and report him for harassment.

And ask your DH to have a strong word with him making it clear (somehow) that he doesn’t like the pervy attitude towards his daughter and that the staring stops immediately.

You need to move.

And get a door and surrounding cameras, Particularly in the shared entrance.

Can you not just put up a fence ?

I think it might be worth speaking to the police, tell them you know he hasn’t done enough to be charged, but can they take a statement in case anything escalates. & ask them if they have any advice on dealing with him.

other than that, maybe you or DH needs to ask Sil if she’s aware her partner comes across as a letchy pervert, bordering on a peodophile. & even if he doesn’t mind being known as one, does she want to be known as the woman who lives with “the perv” ? Maybe play up the “people are talking” rather than just your dd noticing.

difficult situation though.

I think if your no contact with him there's less of a need for politeness. If you tell him about it and he's nasty enough he might be worse so I'd say to DD how nasty he is and to be extremely cautious of him. Perhaps a quick comment if you're with DD and he starts glaring like 'she's half your age you filthy old man' and make it into a semi joke. Difficult situation though

Guy sounds like an absolute creep. I'd be wanting to move away if I were in your shoes. Is it an option? If you challenge him, he's unlikely to back off, I doubt he has the ability to feel guilt, remorse or empathy, and may double down on his creepiness just to make a point...

Obviously your daughter's feelings have to come first but I get the need to keep the peace at the same time.
Use this as a valuable teaching moment for your daughter and teach her the skills she will need throughout her life to deal with weird Pervy men.
I worked in bars from 14 so learned my skills young and it's given me the confidence to always feel in control when a man might try to make me feel uncomfortable.

Tell her to film him staring on her phone.

Then, next time you see him;

"Stay the fuck away from my daughter or I'll put that video on the internet, you pervert."

You really have to be crystal clear with people like this that you aren't going to stand for it. I had to tell a creep to stay away from me and my daughter not long ago. I threatened him with legal action. He's fucked off now.

Absolutely.

She and her husband have to be a united front on this and both lay down the law to him. I certainly wouldn't advise doing it alone. That could indeed be dangerous. I've done it, because I tend to get fearless when I'm pissed off. It's worked for me, probably because, as others have told me, I'm quite terrifying in those situations. But I've also been lucky that they weren't total psychopaths.

He gets off on the reaction.

Grey rock, fence if possible and as many security cameras as possible. Don't reward him with snappy retorts.

Personally I'd be tempted to hire some really big intimidating blokes to hang around for a couple of weeks, but realistically that isn't practical.

Get an extra large umbrella on Amazon @strongandenduringfriendships
Have your daughter keep one with her at all times and open it when in view of your BIL, only sideways — effectively blocking his view of her.
Yeah, it’s obvious and yeah, it’s noticeable. But that’s the point, isn’t it.
If he kicks off, you’ll know it’s working as intended.

Why can't you say that? Call him out and make him accountable for his actions! If you can't do it, your husband should.

He sounds like a vile man who is making your daughter feel uncomfortable, it's not on!

I'm glad that it's worked out for you in the past but NO man of this sort is remotely terrified of a woman giving them a verbal lashing. They either find it funny, or it pisses them off, neither of which are any help in this situation. They definitely don't go home and reevaluate the way they treat women.

I didn't say they reevaluate how they treat women at all. They will, however, decide a woman is not the easy target they were hoping for and give up. Men who harass women are not always tough guys, that's a myth. They count on women freezing and being too scared to fight. I have had men reel back in horror and show obvious fear, then immediately back off. I just act like a bigger psycho than they could ever dream of being. As I said, sometimes they are truly dangerous, but usually they are garden variety bullies. I do carry a weapon if other people are not around, just in case somebody ever wants to try me on. If you believe you can and will kill them, they may be able to sense that. Many of them do hone those kind of senses so they'll know who is safe to target. Bullies tend to be lazy, so they don't want to work too hard for it or take unnecessary risks.
Again, the equation changes if you are dealing with violent psychopaths. Violent psychopaths, however, are more likely to do these things away from the public eye. If they are planning a crime, they don't want witnesses. If that's the situation, flight is more appropriate than fight as a first line of defence.

These are my experiences, not a one size fits all prescription. I worked in the security field for a long time and came across a lot of creeps.
If you have had a different experience regarding harassers, okay, you know what works for you.

I would hit him in the face if he was even just looking at my daughter. He's a grown man, even f they use the same entrance he should be perfectly capable of looking the other way.