To be livid with work- I’ve been moved dept and given pay cut

[TaylorNift]

With no notice -as of next week they want me gone

no improvement plan or disciplinaries (but new manager)

My family circumstances (4 kids) have been challenging the last year which they’ve been accommodating with - they’ve said a move would be better for them/me as I have have children and the hours their will better support my needs.

I do NOT want to work there. I’m shaking and so angry the way this was done. I was completely side swiped.
can anyone advise?

No replies until you have things in writing !

If it's not in writing there's nothing to reply to.

You need to ask for it to be put into writing, and in the meantime be ringing ACAS (0300 123 1100).

quite possibly from their perspective it’s a

“take this chance Op to keep your job, because if you don’t…. we are starting the process to manage you out”

Request a summary of events in writing from HR, including a copy of the restructuring process they are following. Inform them that no reply will be made from you until you receive such correspondence.
Once you have this information, contact ACAS, CAB or your union if you have one.

If that is the case then her performance/absence issues should be addressed and a plan put in place.

indeed

but i’m throwing it out there that to avoid all that… they are throwing op a lifeline

OP also remember to see if you have any legal insurance cover - often with house insurance, sometimes motor insurance, some bank accounts or other schemes that have it included (even think of things like Which magazine - think that used to have some links to cover)...

If you have it then it's worth talking to them too for information - it's a cheap way of getting good legal help. It's also worth thinking that if they are planning on getting you back into role for 6 weeks at their busy time - will they be paying you full whack again? And is y our role really redundant if they will want you back for 6 weeks shortly?

Hoping that ACAS has been of some use.

Other thing to do is to record all meetings going forward - do it on your phone if you have plenty of space, just do it as an aside as you start the meeting - say that you're sure they won't mind, you expect they will want to do the same, but that after previous meetings there was a lot of information in a short time, you're still waiting for the minutes for them and you want to make sure that you have an accurate record - obviously you will only be using it for the purposes of dealing with this offer so it will only be heard by those involved. And if they then kick up a fuss, ask why they don't want to have an accurate record of the meeting? That their reluctance to want this seems very suspicious to you. Hopefully it will focus their minds significantly!

You hint that you have had problems at work and they have been accommodating. Sounds like the move could be justified.

i was just coming here to ask @TaylorNift to describe 1. 'challenging childcare situation they have had; and 2. describe the help the company has been giving you which you described as 'accommodating'.

sorry, but it is madness to think you can have it both ways!

I would email them outlining your understanding of what they’ve said about it, including what they seem to be proposing, their references to your performance and childcare situation, and ask them to clarify, in writing.

If OP pushes back on this, I would wager that it will backfire on her hugely. I think they are cutting you some slack because you have been there for years, but ultimately they want you out. So kick back on this Op, and they will start performance reviews that will ultimately end up with you being fired

Not legal advice - just experienced in bullshit.

Dear (Person who called the meeting).

I am writing to follow up on our discussion on 16th July 2024, with Person X present, where you explained that you suggested that changes roles, and move to (Role Name), a position that is paid X compared to my current role of (Current Role Name) with an annual/hourly salary/wage of £X. This was suggested as a change due to my family circumstance, which I understood to mean my young children.

I am writing to confirm I am not am interested in pursuing this change of roles, and intend to continue in my role as it currently stands. I have been fortunate to work for Company Whatever for 20 years, and have been able to see much of the business operations and am satisfied that my current role is the best fit for me at this time. I believe my track record in this role supports that, and no concerns have been raised with me regarding this in the (insert duration in current role) that I have been working in this role/department.

Kind regards,

Fucked Off and Getting Legal.

You don't need to add anything about how this is clear discrimination, it will be implied. What you can do is share this with the ACAS team and possibly employment law solicitor, hopefully in a free session where they assess the initial circumstances. If you have any further push back, you can then consult with ACAS or your solicitor.

Chin up OP - plenty of big organisations do batshit things that are in no way legal. It doesn't mean they get away with them, and once this issue gets on the desk of someone senior in HR who realises what kind of ridiculous stunt these guys have tried to pull, I wouldn't be surprised if you got a swift apology.

They are trying to force you out by making you resign due to less pay. They are desperately hoping you will fuck off with your tail between your legs and go quietly.

Fight this every step of the way and don't agree to anything. If your performance has been an issue they needed to have worked with you to improve.

Ok
its been a really emotional day.
I am very grateful for your input all of you.

I get that many of you are taking time out of your day and investing time in this thread and me , sorry if I don’t give you all full details which would be too identifying.

Im getting a more full picture now and have learned from management that another colleague (who has zero experience in my field) is being trained up to joint the team in my old role along with another person (same background) who will be added to the team on a part time basis. This makes no sense to me.
They have so far refused to put any of this in writing - I’ve been told that if I accept the move on Friday a new contract will be created for me - that will be what I require in writing 🙄

And what have they said will happen if you don’t accept this new role…

Is there an HR dept? This sounds pretty chaotic behaviour!

They haven’t said what will happen if I refuse
Yes they have an HR dept.
Ive emailed them.

i think you need to tread very very carefully here OP

It does sound as though the company is going about this clumsily and trying to skip a bunch of logical (and possibly compliance) steps.

In your shoes I would drop the rope and go quiet - wait for them to chase you for an answer. When they do, tell them that you cannot provide a response until they confirm in writing what they are proposing and the reasons for the change. A contract variation is not sufficient - if you were applying for a job you'd have an advert and job description to refer to, and written confirmation of the job offer. Rinse and repeat. And carry on as normal with your current role and responsibilities. Document everything. If your manager chases you verbally then follow-up with an email (confirming the details of our conversation where you advised blah blah).

Whilst this is happening, get some advice. If you're in a Union then speak to your rep. Call ACAS. Also worth checking your home insurance to see if it includes Legal cover - and if it does, whether the Legal cover includes employment disputes. If it does then call the Legal helpline and get a case logged - they can tell you where you stand legally, and help with advice on next steps including how to respond to your employer and so on.

Above all, don't offer your manager or their boss any kind of verbal or emotional reaction. I know the temptation is to lose your shit (and it's understandable) but don't. Don't discuss this with your work mates or your lunch bestie. Even people you think you can trust can have a nasty habit of gossiping, and it could backfire on you. Safer to keep quiet - if you're asked about it then say you can't discuss it and change the subject.

Good luck.

I work in HR.

Good that you’ve emailed HR. I was going to suggest that you email HR and bullet point what you’ve been advised and ask them to confirm that you’ve understood the comments correctly. I would note that this is the first you have been made aware of the issue. I would definitely mention the comment about ‘your family situation’.

Referring to ‘your family situation’ and using that as a reason to demote you is potentially sex discrimination. It’s widely acknowledged that women pick up most of the family stuff.

Perceived issues with performance shouldn’t have come out of the blue. Regular feedback from your manager should have made you aware well before it got to this. There should be a formal paper trail for this, including them liaising with HR for advise. They can’t turn around and claim they mentioned it verbally with nothing to back it up, they need to evidence it.

As well as speaking to ACAS, and contacting your union rep, check if you’ve got legal cover with your home insurance, or even with your employee benefits. Get professional legal advice.

The rush to get paperwork done and refusal to put any of this in writing really bothers me as a pressure tactic to prevent you getting legal advice and to deny you the rights of an employee under employment legislation - pressurising you to accept it quickly and legally absolve them of their responsibilities as an employer.

What have ACAS said?

(remember, the HR dept works for your employer and looks out for their interests not you and yours)

HR look after the business by making sure it doesn’t end up at tribunal, which then gets published in the paper and causes reputational damage, as well as a financial hit. Looking out for the employee is looking out for the business. We don’t sit in the basement coming up with ways of covering up wrongdoing.

I’d begin by emailing them outlining these new ‘terms’ and asking them to comfirm these as true.

“Just so everyone is on the same page, can you please confirm that you wish for me to…”

Then you have some legal standing going forwards. It sounds like they’re doing this really, really badly. Tread carefully.

It bothers me that this change has come directly from your manager and hasn’t been proposed via HR.

If they have done what you have said then they are in essence constructively dismissing you - problem is without legal support of a union it will cost you a lot of money to fight.

do you have a contract? Assuming not zero hours?

you need to ask for the restructuring policy from HR - then read it.

they need to put it in writing and give notice in accordance with their policy. The problem is they aren’t making your job redundant, they are moving you and a pay cut. They can’t do any of that without following a disciplinary, capability or restructuring process. They will be reliant on you not knowing this and accepting without complaint.

you need to get assertive and stand up to them.

you might want to join a union but I fear none will take you on with this issue.