To not want to be friends with this couple?

[WanOvaryKenobi]

I will keep the details to the bare essentials, please feel free to ask for more.

DH and I have a system where we do not control who the other person sees but we don't force each other to spend time with people we don't want to. So far this has worked well.

A few years ago I got a bit fed up with one of his friends. Nothing dramatic, just one of these "this time next year I'll be a millionaire" types that will drone on at you for hours about his latest business venture but will of course do no actual work for it. Have seen DH waste 100s of hours and 1000s of £s to help him. Friend does nothing, gets bored, moves on to something else, rinse repeat and he's exactly where he has been for the last 10 years.

A few years ago he met someone, quite a lot of red flags. After only dating a few months she didn't let said friend, who was the best man, go on the stag do as she is controlling. I have organised another big event where the two of them caused a bit of drama and then never showed up. I invited them then, but after that stopped making an effort. There's been a few other problems she has caused within the wider friend group due to her being jealous of other partners.

Recently this friend is struggling with his mental health. They've had two kids back to back and he now recently has a job. She's unhappy about this, screams at him until he overdoses, won't let him wear deodorant after work, checks his phone, and won't let him see any friends alone. She screams in front of the babies and her older child from a previous relationship. Friend has decided that we should all be friends as, to quote, we could "teach her how to behave so she can see life doesn't have to be this way" and so she can "see what nice normal couples are like".

I'm pissed off as I don't want to be involved with these people, their lifestyles, their kids, etc and I'm annoyed DH didn't nip this in the bud. DH thinks I should have made an effort. I don't think it's our responsibility as we have enough on our plate and nobody bothered to ask if I was interested before this idea gained traction.

AIBU?

Have you thought about putting a report in to SS. Solve all of your problems then and might actually help those bairns.

Do not put your kids in this situation either as they could think it's ok to be like that to others!

I don't think anyone is better, it just looks fundamentally toxic and has been since Day 1.

I expressed these concerns to DH about their relationship, mental health, and having kids on the dole and he said I was being judgemental. That was 4 years ago and they've had two kids since then.

so OP what is stopping you doing the anonymous report thing?

Screams at him until he overdoses?

I don't think their problems can be solved by hanging out with some "normal" couples.
If you are concerned (as I would be) about the safeguarding of those young children, you should make a SS referral or contact the older one's school/younger ones nursery to report concerns.
Your DH (or you) should encourage his friend to seek support for his overdoses and options to leave the relationship.

I only know what I have said in the post. DH doesn't want to report to SS as he says they "are not child abusers".

There also doesn't seem to be a specific thing I could report as it's not directed towards the kids (as far as I know).

Well he's got a skewed vision of what child abuse is then, hasn't he?

Your husband does not dictate your actions. You know about this damaging behaviour, and you should be reporting it. Of course a household full of screaming, fighting and overdosing involves the kids.

OK thank you for this. This puts it in a very clear light that I have had a deep unease about all of this for a very long time for multiple reasons, and have been continually told by DH that there is no problem because it reflects badly on his friend. I have a few contacts who work/worked in social services. Will text them today.

oh come on you KNOW that is not an excuse. He takes overdoses and vomits it up? She screams at him in front of the kids?

I think all you can do here is have no personal relationship with this couple. They are not going to switch from toxic to functional by observing other couples. I think it could make things even worse for your DH’s friend.
I worked with a man who was being emotionally and physically abused by his wife. Four kids under ten. She didn’t work but he did. He came into work once with a black eye and the kids in tow.
He was only allowed bus funds and a packed lunch. He was not allowed to talk to women at work.
He used to walk sometimes so he could keep his pocket money. I used to drive past him often, pick him up, and drop him off a bus stop from home. Nothing romantic by the way. I was only young, and he was like my dad, but beaten down.
It takes something extreme sometimes for these couples to end but in the meantime they cause chaos.
Can understand your DH being protective even if it’s not his finest hour.
But you have no ties here. You could give so much more, it would make no difference, it would probably be used against you by this couple as well.

this. 100 per cent. Report.

As to your DH asking you to get involved in a social situation with them "as cover" its very very unlikely that he will get a chance to talk to him one to one, even if you are there to distract his partner. Its a really unworkable plan. And does he think a one off meeting will do it.

Could DH take an afternoon off work and meet up with his friend at his friend's work place, during lunch hour. instead? (although you also saidFriend's on the dole) but he must be able to exit the house at some time. Even if its just supposed to be shopping.. Your DH could meet him at the shop. Then at least he could talk one to one.
Not that I think DH will get anywhere or be able to solve this man's problems in one meet up, if the friend is "taking overdoses and throwing up" he's got some serious mental health issues and DH needs to pursuade him to see his doctor. Even if he goes with him. The Social Services might be able to help DH's friend too. But someone needs to flag this up for the sake of the children.

You are being unreasonable for not reporting to SS.
Your husbands opinion is why he hasn't done it. You don't agree with that so you should have reported it yourself. Anonymously if you must

Multiple overdose 'attempts' in order to make someone shut up screaming is pretty much abuse. The children must be so scared - I know I was absolutely terrified in a similar situation.

"In England and Wales, the Domestic Abuse Act 2021 recognises children as victims of domestic abuse if they “see, hear or otherwise experience the effects of abuse”. It specifies that domestic abuse occurs if those involved in the abusive behaviour are aged 16 or over and are personally connected to each other."

https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/child-abuse-and-neglect/domestic-abuse

No way keep saying no. You're not there to fix their relationship. They sound awful.

Thank you. We are in Scotland.

There are some specific examples you can use in a report to Early help/CSC that you have told us here:

The adults in the household regularly shout and scream - exposure can indicate emotional abuse of the DC
One of the adults in the household is suffering from suicide ideation - living with this for DC's is a potential exposure to psychological harm
One of the adults is coercively controlling the other adult - the DC are being exposed to domestic abuse
There are only two bedrooms for five family members - overcrowding can impact on DC's wellbeing and may indicate neglect
Potential exposure to poverty and financial insecurity may indicate that the children's basic needs are not being met.
Two of the children are very young - two under two which can indicate a level of vulnerability around being unable to communicate their needs.
There are two adults who may not have the capacity to meet the children's needs for safety, stability, access to resources and emotional support.

You are not in a position to assess the level of family dysfunction but Children's Services are, I would definitely ring this in.

You all sound as bad as each other she's abusive, he's manipulative and your husbands an enabler by not walking away. And your just as bad for not reporting to social services, them poor kids

Your husband sounds uglier with EVERY post.
Why are you TTC with him?
I think you are married to a bully who loses his shit when you push back.

I think you should be worried for yourself.
I wouldn't be inflicting your husband on an innocent child.

Screaming at him until he swallows + purges paracetamol in a house full of children is a direct call to social services for me…

Life really is too short for this. Just break contact with them.

OP I would be extremely concerned about the level of dysfunction that your partner sees as normal. Did he have a troubled upbringing himself? I really worry about what you'd be letting yourself in for if you have children with him.

No, DH had a wonderful upbringing with limited means and his parents are still happily married.

DH has always had a blind spot with this friend. It has always been there when I have suggested his friend needs to sort himself out. DH gets extremely defensive about any criticism.

When friend first met this woman and the red flags were there I said so. When they started trying for kids I said to DH that friend needed to sort out his relationship, sort out his mental health, and get a job to provide for his family. DH did not like this at all and we argued.

Now we are where we are and I saw it coming and said so. DH did not want to listen to me. And I have felt like tearing my hair out for months about how fucked up this situation is - and how much these people are clearly not good people - but DH just says I am a bad person for thinking that.

I stand by my first comment that the person directly hurting YOU in this situation is your husband, not his friend. Most people wouldn’t want their loved ones around people like this and they certainly wouldn’t snap at them for pointing out how utterly wrong that relationship is. It’s an abusive household and your husband is enabling it financially, making excuses for them and facilitating the abuse to continue in front of children. He’s absolutely as bad as the friend and the partner.

Your husband needs to decide who's more important, his friend or his wife. If he can't be friends with this person without wasting thousands of pounds (?!) on harebrained schemes that never pan out, getting embroiled in endless drama, and trying to drag you into it against your will, the friendship needs to be phased out.

I expect to come first with my husband, far above any friend, and that means that if his friendship is negatively impacting on our married life, the friend may have to go or at least be knocked down a peg or two in the hierarchy!