Is DN rude or is this ok?

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Just back from dinner at the in law’s house - PILs, DH, DDs, BIL, SIL & DN.
As per usual, DN (7 years old) did not say hi or bye, answer any of our questions, or say a single word to DH or me.
We see her and her family and PILs regularly, usually for monthly Sunday lunches. So of course when we arrive at such an occasion DH and I always say hi to her, and we might ask how she is or ask how’s school or compliment her necklace/skirt/socks… usual stuff. She doesn’t reply. She looks at us but won’t respond. Then her mum or dad answer on her behalf. (PILs answer for her if they aren’t there).
She doesn’t come across as shy. She goes to drama clubs and by all accounts has plenty of friends. She gets on very well with our DDs and they play together running around having a great time. She talks to her parents and PILs without any bother.
Last month they came to our house for lunch. I offered her a drink and she didn’t answer so BIL said “Katy, tell Auntie what you’d like to drink” and she didn’t say anything so he said “she’ll have some milk”. I tried to ask her what she liked out of the food I’d made and she didn’t answer so MIL told me what to serve, DN corrected her (“I don’t want carrots nanny”) so MIL then told me “no carrots actually” even though we are all in the same room.
I find it strange! Even dare I say rude?! I teach for a living so I’m used to talking to kids, and DH is great with kids and very popular with our friends children (and our own 😆). I can’t think why she is like this with me and DH and supposedly with no one else. There’s no back story, we have been her auntie and uncle since birth, send cards and gifts for every birthday and Christmas, invite her to our parties. When we see we always try to engage her in conversation, but I don’t think we are pushy. We don’t tell her off or anything. We don’t show any annoyance or frustration that she ignores us (as it’s DH side of the family I don’t feel bold enough to call out the behaviour or say anything direct). She and my kids play so lovely that spending time with them all is very nice from that perspective.
DH just says “who cares” about it all, but I’m inclined to think her DPs and DGPs should be firmer with her. Sometimes I wonder if she’s trying to be cute and coy, but if so I don’t get why she’s doing it with us! I keep thinking if it was my daughter and no valid reason for the behaviour l I wouldn’t ‘help’ her by answering for her.
Would this bother you?

Selective mutism?

I would ignore it but also stop making any effort with her. At the moment her silent treatment is getting her attention from everyone so stop that attention.

If they come over, let her parents serve her food. Have drinks on the table, her parents can give her what she wants. Don’t ask her questions.

Don’t go out of your way to say hello to her, just say a general hi to everyone.

My cousin was exactly like this as a child, but he also wouldn't speak to grandparents, he would speak to us his cousin's thigh when adults weren't around, but it was the eighties and no one really knew much about neuro divergency, his mother was always a bit overbearing with him or speaking for him etc, and it was issued out down to that. He also had a really limited set of foods he could eat and heaven forbid if they touched. He also struggled with social relationships at school etc but is an excellent musician and had no issue with stage performances.
Seems obvious now right, and he's been diagnosed as autistic as an adult, but we didn't know then.

My son has selective mutism. I'm so glad that family members didn't stop making an effort with him, didn't stop saying hello to him or serving him food.
It's because they continued to treat him with love, kindness and patience that he eventually overcame his anxiety and was able to start talking to them.
He absolutely did not become mute for attention.

OP hasn’t said her niece has selective mutism. So why are you conflating her with your son? Is your son diagnosed?

I would just cut out the awkward conversations/questions altogether and ask GPs or her parents the questions. If she's ND then you're helping her and if she's doing it for attention then you're taking it away from her and she'll get bored.

Do you find you're often the people telling the kids to be quiet? It might be that she sees you both as the fun sponges. Not that you don't fully have a right to tell them to quiet down - but just seeing it from her perspective.

Yes my son has been diagnosed. Having read OP's account of her niece's behaviour it sounded very much like my son's behaviour, identical in fact. Many other OP's have come along to suggest selective/situational mutism too. My son was able to talk to some children but became completely mute when spoken to by adult relatives, neighbours, friends.
It broke my heart when people saw him as rude because he was going through hell. I can't be sure OP's niece has SM but she could have been describing my son at family gatherings.

Perhaps OP doesn’t know??? She is clearly not aware what selective mutism is, but will now hopefully educate herself. It’s particularly important to do that as a teacher.

I just don’t understand why the parents wouldn’t say to their brother or son (OP’s DH) ‘just so you know, we think Katy has selective mutism which means blah…’

Then OP and DH would know how to approach the child to make her feel comfortable.

The easy answer there is the parents probably don't know. I don't think most of us with experience of it are suggesting the child has been diagnosed with anything. We just recognise the behaviour as being very similar to situational mutism and therefore not necessarily a kid being rude. The parents probably just think their child is a bit shy or whatever and are just muddling through not being entirely sure how to deal with it.

And of course it's not definite the child does have anything going on. Maybe they are just rude. But as there is a possible other explanation I'd always err on the side of caution and just try to be nice about it.

The thing is...maybe they don't know themselves.

I'm ND and was a SENCO/SEN Teacher in a Referral Unit for years.

I know from years of personal and professional experience that both of my friend's kids are ND (and I communicate with them as if they are, which works out successfully) but my friend still suspects they are just a bit "quirky" or "slow developers" as does most of the family. It's all "just ignore Teddy not talking/making eye contact/having a meltdown every time he leaves the house, he hates all people just like his Daddy!" (Dad is also very late diagnosed ND) and "I know most other kids can talk and walk and are potty trained by now but Lily is just really lazy and doesn't even attempt to stand up or say hello haha. Lazy bones! She'll get there when she gets there!"

They're older now but there have been clear signs for years that have just been dismissed as "they're perfectly healthy, that's just Teddy and Lily being Teddy and Lily".

If the OP's family are saying "Cat got your tongue?!" to DN, there's a big chance that they have no idea that there is/could be an additional need because, if she IS selectively mute, that would be an awful approach.

It's difficult in today's society. We're all so scared of offending each other. I don't feel I can't tell my friend that both her kids have SEN and that I am really concerned in particular about the youngest, she'd take it very badly.

Even when a parent does notice something unusual about their child's behaviour and they say, "have you ever seen how Fred repeats the same word over and over? I'm a bit worried it's a sign of something like autism..." friends tend to say, "oh no...I'm sure it's nothing at all! Ava used to say willy a hundred times a day at that age! He'll grow out of it!"

One of my family members was told directly by their step mum (nursery teacher) that they felt their step grandchild should be assessed for Autism due to her tiptoe walking, hand leading/flapping and other things she'd noticed (she went with the obvious physical signs which could be observed). The family took it really well, were grateful and the child is indeed Autistic and doing far better in school now adjustments have been made. But by that point she was six and signs were apparent from at least two...I really admire step-mum in this case and the parents who didn't take it personally, they just wanted their daughter to get what she needed in the long-term. It takes courage to be upfront!

@TeenScreenQueen and @PerkyMintDeer

Do you think OP should ask her brother sensitively what’s going on?

Because if it is selective mutism and it’s happening in other aspects of the child’s life then maybe the parents should be guided gently towards talking to the SENCo of the school.

And if it’s just rudeness then they might be inclined next time to ask their daughter to say hello!

Or more likely she's a brat! Not everything can be magiced away by an ism.

As the child is OK with everyone else I think it's just her choosing to be rude to her Aunt and Uncle, no need to make up excuses for her.

My DD is like this - she is autistic. I assume you have never looked after her? She just isn't comfortable enough with you.

It's a shame as a teacher you haven't recognised this possible reason.

I've thought about this...

Perhaps, "As DN is getting older and she's still finding it hard to communicate with us, I asked some colleagues for advice about how I could make her comfortable or if I might be doing something to make her more shy...A couple of them said that some of the children they've taught have something called Situational Mutism and it seems like they behave similarly. Have you heard of it? If it's not that, is there anything else you think we could do as a family to help her? I understand she's just struggling but I'd hate it if she did it to someone else and they thought she was being rude. I'll take onboard any advice, we really love her and would like to have a closer relationship."

I can't believe that as a teacher you've never come across selective mutism to be honest. Or are not at least aware of it.

It doesn't sound like she's rude. It sounds like she's never able to answer you when put on the spot, and it is therefore more than simply deciding she's 'rude'.

If the child has selective mutism then why doesn’t someone say so?

Because it takes a specialist to diagnose. Parents are probably aware that she isn't comfortable speaking to people she doesn't know but they put it down as being 'shy'.

Do you think it is because you teach. I have had friends children abit wary of me as they know I am a teacher and I think they feel funny about it.tube she feels she needs to be on best behaviour or feel awkward.

Needs a convo amongst the adults by the sound of it.

My DD was like this, chatted away at home, refused to talk to the teachers at school. I took in a recording of her chatting to prove she could talk! She grew out of it eventually although remained very shy. particularly with strangers. You can't make a child talk to someone if they don't want to or feel unable to.

Edit: She couldn't explain to me why she wouldn't talk to the teacher, she just said they hadn't been introduced...

The thing is many parents haven't heard of selective mutism. They see their child doesn't talk at certain times and either think they're shy or extremely rude or stubborn. They might chastise their child for being rude which only increases the childs anxiety around talking. Look at all the people on this post who've called the niece a brat. Alternatively maybe the parents do know but don't want to talk about it.
There is very little understanding of selective mutism. I was telling my friend about my son's SM. My friend's been a teacher for 20 years so I assumed he knew all about it. He'd never heard of it!

I noticed the strange wording “I teach for a living’ and doubt the OP is trained.

Lovely.
If she was just a brat I don't think the lack of talking would be so consistent. If she was just rude, she'd talk when she felt like it and not talk when she didn't want to. I've met rude kids who ignore me sometimes but when they want something or feel like talking they do.
The fact that DN never talks to certain people is much more consistent with situational mutism.