AIBU to want a highflying career as well as being a Mum?

[ManhattanMama]

I've only been back at work for 2 weeks and am already having conflicts between work and homelife which I'm struggling to resolve. I work in investment banking, and before having DS (nearly 7 mths old), I used to work 8am - 6.30pm at a minimum, usually longer. Obviously I've already cut back on my hours, and am generally doing 8.30 to 5.30 which just about leaves me enough to time to dash to daycare to pick DS up before 6.30 (I have to take 2 trains to get there).

The problem I've got is that my job just isn't a predictable 9-5 kind of role - things happen which mean that I may have to start early or work late. I've been asked to take part in a Women in Banking mentoring program which means I'm committed to being at work late every Thursday for the next 6 weeks - I asked DH before agreeing whether he was happy for me to do it and he said yes but (surprise, surprise) - the first time I'm home late and he's in a real strop with me because he had to get all of DS's stuff ready for daycare and do the late night feed by himself. He was literally ignoring me this morning as he was so annoyed, so I had it out with him and he said "Now you're a mum you should be happy to just turn up and do the 9-5 then get home to be with our son, not spending time networking and trying to be the career woman".

AIBU or is this completely out of order? Why can I not have a career AND be a good mum? I've worked my rear end off to get to the position I have at the moment and I don't want to do a half-arsed job now just because I have a baby. Things aren't being helped by the fact that everytime I talk to my Mum she says "DS must be finding it so hard only seeing you for an hour a day" - she gave up work to have kids and thinks I should do the same.

What do you think? AIB selfish to want to keep working even though we can afford for me to stop? Career aside, I don't think I could cope with being home with DS all day - it's much harder than working!

Sorry it's so long...

Surely though if you don't want to be critised for your choices and disagreed with then i would strongly advise NOT posting in this section asking the question am i being unreasonable?

I would advise posting in a more appropriote section and ask for advice on juggling a full time demanding job with small baby. I'm sure if the op had done that then she would have attracted posters who would happily give their advice with no judgement.

By posting on the AIBU section you are opening yourself up for a debate and critisism. I must also point out that as the op asked AIBU, posters should not then say to someone;

"I suggest you just run along and find something else to worry your pretty little head about!"

and

" why don't you just buzz off to a thread where someone might care a jot for your opinion!

Go on - off you go "

Just because your not agreeing with the op. Again the AIBU section is NOT the place to post if you want advice and have no one disagree with you.

Bink??

When have i ever said i don't like being seen as an equal partner with my dp in the business?? Of course i want to be seen as equal!

And it is an unrealistic message and women shouldn't be made to feel pressured that they should aim to have the baby AND the high flying career all at the same time. Surely that is giving the message to men that women can do it all and so the men can get away with not helping with the baby because the women are saying thay can do it all.

I am the boss, they can't change that just by thinking i'm not and there are no men to pick up on that. It's all women we employ who see my dp as "the boss." Women are eachothers own enemy most of the time.

Indeed, I left out a "not" there - should have said "not liking not being seen" - whole point is that I realise you'd like to be seen as equal.

Bink i think i read your post wrong. Hold on...

Oh - and actually this is such a huge thing.

Re women and enemies - this is SO not my experience - my whole working life, which has been long (30 years, and loads of different levels of work). I cannot strongly enough say how supported (and supportive) my work relations with women have been throughout, and really throughout - with co-workers as a secretary, with co-teachers at a college, with colleagues as a lawyer.

I do realise this is not everyone's experience, and that it is probably better the more skilled a job is - but if I feel anything heart-feltedly, it is how fantastic my working relationships with women have always been.

My point was, if we tell men we can do it all, the more they expect. I am sure this will back fire on us women because the more we say we can do, the less the men will do in terms of looking after the dc etc. If the woman is saying "i can have a long houred, high flying career AND have a baby and look after it" the men are just going to do less as they will think we are ok doing it.

The message we should be sending out to men is they can't just be successful at work at do little to help at home. We need to make them realise they need to chip in and do 50% of the parenting rather than sending out the message that women can do it all.

Sorry i name changed for a thread that was embarressing for me. I hope no one on that thread reads this one

That's better

Looking at it does look like i am contridicting myself. I am not. What i mean is by saying "unfortunatly with the male dominated world we live in" i mean us women should be fighting our asses off to be seen as equal in the work place. But, i do't think we should be sending out the message that we can "do it all" in terms of having a baby and still doing the long hours in the high flying job.

My advice was you get a sign on the shop saying you're the proprietor (I wonder if you and your husband have a written partnership or shareholder agreement you ought to by the way - write something up) and then you need to behave assertively in a way that makes customers know you are an equal partner.

it's not about having it all. it's about men and women finding it perfectly possible as so many women on this ghread have shown to have reasonably high paid work they love and a family. Loads of us manage that. It rarely happens however if you are with a sexist man or if it's not 50% at home. Women need to fight that out at home - it's much harder than equality under the law at work. It's about making sure things are fair in terms of effort and that as soon as that baby is born your husband is as likely to mind it as you after work and at weekends.

We certanily need to show that plenty of women have uber jobs at huge salaries and sit on the cabinet etc work as surgeons or QCs full time long hours and still have happily married lives and are as likely as men to achieve that and the more examples young girls are shown of that the better.

MsSparkle: now here I have to disagree with you. You say "But, i do't think we should be sending out the message that we can "do it all" in terms of having a baby and still doing the long hours in the high flying job".

I disagree. It can be done. And any message that goes out to the contrary is needlessly defeatist and annoys me a lot because it makes assumptions to the contrary, that women can't or shouldn't try to do this. Then what this thread - and a lot of other very helpful threads - have focussed on is how it can be done: how you need to have a partner with a shared vision of chldcare; how you have to ruthlessly prioritise; how you need to cut corners and which corners to cut; how it is all a lot more do-able if you have NT children; how you have to have a strong sense of self-belief, but just enough self doubt to keep you open to constant revisions to your agenda etc etc.

You eloquently make the point of just how much organisation and, more importantly, delegation is required to make it happen, Anchovy.

I think that that is an important point. You can work outside the home and be a parent, but you cannot simultaneously be at home with your children.

But what happens if we send out the "women can do it all" message to men and the men say "well get on with then!"

Will we not then be moaning "men make us women do everything..."?

I am sparkle by the way, i can't be bothered to name change again

There's a rather philosophical distinction developing between posters' respective meaning of "all" here ...

"All", for me and - I will presume - for Anchovy & others in similar boat, can still be "all" even if it does not take in my witnessing each and every minute of my child's day. My "all" means something more like a good shot at feeling satisfiedly three-dimensional - having a domestic life, an intellectual life, and a public-economic-commercial-not-sure-how-to-characterise-that-one-but-you-know-what-I-mean life.

And, yes, MsS, I completely take your point about how certain men (being, probably, one's very annoying dinosaurish pompous condescending father-in-law, not that mine is of that sort in any way) might wilfully twist the "all" soundbite to suit themselves. But that's just because they're missing the point. Probably the same sort of man who pontificates about PC gorn mad.

Am I missing a clever point here? Of course you cannot work outside the house and simultaneously be at home with your children.
(Actually as my children are at school from 8.20am to 3pm, even a SAHM coudn't be at home with them all day).

There was a good point, I feel, in a book I read by Libby Purves which said that you can delegate the looking after of your children but you cannot delegate the responsibility for looking after them.

I think the message a lot of people have been trying to get across, MsSparkle, and this takes us right back to the OP, that for a mother to be working successfully, a pre-requisite seems to be a collaborative partner, not one who embraces traditional patriarchal roles.

Just as I have freed DH up from the role of being the "main provider", then he has to ensure that I am not stuck with the role of being the "main childcarer". Works well for us - if the DCs are ill/we have a school commitment/nanny off sick we discuss between us what our commitments are and who can do what. Its pretty much 50/50 - tends to depend on what our meeting schedules are like on any one day.

I went home early last week to relieve our nanny who had a drs appointment, which wasn't a matter of female subservience but because DH was in Geneva!

Feel we are getting back to the same old same old on this thread and I am beginning to recognise some stuck records old entrenched positions coming up, so I will gracefully retire!

I don't think it's a remotely philosophical distinction .

Some mothers are content to spend one hour a day with their baby. Some are content with two. Others with three. Others need to spend most of their day, every day, with their baby.

The amount of hours a mother needs to spend with her baby in order to feel contented largely conditions the number of hours she will be prepared to delegate care of her child.

Frankly even for me as an inbetweeny sort of worker (working ft from home), "having it all" would not extend to "having the right to do all the cleaning or sort out the really really boring bits". Those I would far rather delegate to someone else, and split the balance with my husband (actually I think my husband does far more washing up and washing than I do despite working ft). I agree with whoever said that winning the battles at home is far harder than outside, where the wrongs and rights are to a certain extent more clear.

mrsSparkle/RHM, I don't think anyone is saying we can DO it all, much less sending out any messages to dh or anyone.

Rather it is possible for a woman to feel that she HAS it all. The definition of 'All' is peculiarly unique to each woman and involves not being perfect in the work, childcare, housework etc sphere but being Good Enough by her standards because as you know, something must give.

Where the balance lies and where the compromises are made is for each woman to work out. It is hard work and lots of organisation and not for everyone, but the rewards are great if it does come together. And I get lots of tips and support on these mn threads on how to do it.

I particularly like Marina's account of her ds 9 looking at how his and others' families are structured and then coming to the conclusion that he has the 'best of both worlds'. Better than Having it all, she was Giving it all.

To me having it all would be what the op and her husband are trying to do but not very successfully. Neither of them seems to be prepared to step down and make a change in terms of their career in order to create a much needed balance between work and home life. My opinion is one of them needs to dedicate more time out of the office to spend with their ds because as it stands they are both spending a large portion of their day at the office leaving a tiny amount of time to spend with their son.

I would never say she should give up her career or even suggest it should be her who makes the career changes because there are of course two parents here, not one.

blueshoes this is why i have always made it clear that my comments are based on the op and the op only. No one else because it is too hard to generalise everyone because everyone is different.

MrsS - quite a lot of couples can't make it work because what each person wants in order to feel happy is not compatible with what the other person wants.

That's when issues of career sacrifice often surface.

And that's the reason for a lot of divorces.

By the way, Bink, I am happy for you to presume to speak for me on any occasion!