AIBU to want a highflying career as well as being a Mum?

[ManhattanMama]

I've only been back at work for 2 weeks and am already having conflicts between work and homelife which I'm struggling to resolve. I work in investment banking, and before having DS (nearly 7 mths old), I used to work 8am - 6.30pm at a minimum, usually longer. Obviously I've already cut back on my hours, and am generally doing 8.30 to 5.30 which just about leaves me enough to time to dash to daycare to pick DS up before 6.30 (I have to take 2 trains to get there).

The problem I've got is that my job just isn't a predictable 9-5 kind of role - things happen which mean that I may have to start early or work late. I've been asked to take part in a Women in Banking mentoring program which means I'm committed to being at work late every Thursday for the next 6 weeks - I asked DH before agreeing whether he was happy for me to do it and he said yes but (surprise, surprise) - the first time I'm home late and he's in a real strop with me because he had to get all of DS's stuff ready for daycare and do the late night feed by himself. He was literally ignoring me this morning as he was so annoyed, so I had it out with him and he said "Now you're a mum you should be happy to just turn up and do the 9-5 then get home to be with our son, not spending time networking and trying to be the career woman".

AIBU or is this completely out of order? Why can I not have a career AND be a good mum? I've worked my rear end off to get to the position I have at the moment and I don't want to do a half-arsed job now just because I have a baby. Things aren't being helped by the fact that everytime I talk to my Mum she says "DS must be finding it so hard only seeing you for an hour a day" - she gave up work to have kids and thinks I should do the same.

What do you think? AIB selfish to want to keep working even though we can afford for me to stop? Career aside, I don't think I could cope with being home with DS all day - it's much harder than working!

Sorry it's so long...

Oh lots has happened on this thread.

"By MsSparkle on Wed 16-Apr-08 11:39:09
I am not lucky enough you see to know exactly what i want to do as a career. Dp has a small shop which i help him run although in the male dominated world we live in, he is seen as "the boss" while i am seen as "his partner" insteadsad"

hmm, so MsSparkle, may I respectfully suggest that you don't really know what it's like to do a job you like and want to do? And lots of working mothers on this thread

a) like their jobs
b) are good at them
c) want to work
d) are paid well
e) are supporting their families by doing so
f) have no choice
g) even if they did would work
h) are doing their best and what they think is best for their circumstances and their families

or any combination of the above. And many of us accept that we ARE good enough mothers.

I couldn't care less about milestones tbh. Overrated (said in manner of David Brent).

And I remember your previous post Squiffy, fab stuff.

I love my daughter, but I love my job too.

and I do agree

a) that the older they get the more they want you around (ds is 10)

b) working hard to get seniority (or seniority + freedom via being a contractor as I have) does mean you can take off pretty much what time you need for plays/sickness/whatever. Nobody says "where are you?" or "where have you been" when you reach a certain level - it's much more of a case of being trusted to do your job and do it well. Sure, you tell people "I'll be in late tomorrow, sports day" but that's accepted once you;re at a certain level. I had 7 weeks holiday in my last job and will take at least 7 weeks off this year too. so if you do want to work ft oth, the better the job, the easier it gets to get the time you need to be there ime.

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I could have done with it when I went back to work six months ago. I occasionally work long hours (although as WWW has said, I'm at a point in my career where I am trusted to do my job so can juggle stuff) and I'm good at my job. I'm also a much better mother because I really enjoy the time I spend with my DS now - it's a treat. I know if I were to look after him full-time I'd lose my mind.

Wickedwaterwitch, look down on me why don't you. Don't worry, i am used to that...

And may i just add that i have never looked down on working mothers on this thread. My comments have all been soley about the op and no one else.

And may i just remind you that i am a working mother on this thread too you know. I may not have a high flying career but i certainly do my bit. I like my job and think i am good at it. I want to work and have always liked working and dp and i are supporting our family by doing so. We aren't rolling in it but we have a nice life style and dp and i feel we have our work/home life well balanced by working together at it. If i won the lottery tommorrow i would still work.

So i may not know what i want to do career wise way into the future but i still know what it's like to enjoy working and i enjoy creating knew ideas for our shop and watching those ideas come to life, that is very fullfilling indeed. I don't enjoy being looked down upon just because i have choosen not to have a high flying, successful career because to me, fullfillment comes from other areas other than a career.

I am at home at present- but I plan to work and hope to be successful again.
My brother's colleague is very successful- she was made a dame last year for her work. She has 4 children, and I imagine it was very hard work for her and those who supported her, but she has a good relationship with her children and her work has helped thousands.

No, MsSparkle, I didn't read that at all as WWW "looking down" on you (which could lead on to a question as to why you thought it was that). I think she is saying that the issues that relate to you in your job are wholly different to the issues that relate to other people in their jobs. I think that ancientmiddleagedmum had it right when she said that "I think there's no morally superior choice - stay at home, or go to work, it's everyone's free choice and no single choice is right for everyone".

You have said you are not really sure what your career choice is going to be, but for the time being you are working in your husband's shop. A lot of the other people on this thread are talking about jobs that they have trained long and hard for, jobs that they love, jobs that they have a rare skill set for, jobs where they are the main breadwinner: I just don't think you can apply the same, single set of criteria to all WOHMs without taking into account all the many many variables.

FWIW, I rarely enter into the fray in these kinds of threads on the "morality" of working mothers, for a variety of reasons. Partly, because I have an incredibly thick skin and frankly am unfazed by what someone who doesn't know my job, family and children thinks of my life choices, but more pertinently, because the type of job I do and the salary I earn makes it in some ways actually relatively easy for me to be a working mother. We all need to remember that our own position is not universal and therefore our ability to advise others on what to do should be tempered by that.

Oh dear, that'll teach me to just look at the op, I didn't realise it was one of those threads

Did anyone here have a working mother? What was that like? Mine was the type who met us at the school gates, then drifted around the place fed up that she had "thrown it all away".

I had a working mother. I think I felt a bit neglected but it didn't trouble me to the extent of wanting to be a sahm myself.

IfMs S doesn't like her job may be find one you do but more importantly if locals see the male as in charge of the shop why not do a bit of work for women - get a sign put up - Proprietor Mrs Sp, assistant Mr S" make it very clear you're in charge and he helps out or something. Root out this sexism from your local area. be authoritative. Get your husband to say - I;ll have to ask my senior partner or something.

www was just setting out that a lot of women love their work and earn a lot at it. If we can all encourage our daughters to pick work that enthuses them and hopefully will also keep us in our old age if we made bad career choices ourselves so much the better.

I have an incredibly energetic working mother. The times she stayed at home were awful for me as all her energy went into bossing me around. She needed work.

As I said earlier I work full time at the moment although am in the process of cutting my hours for a few years,I too have worked long hours and have a degree and two professional qualifications and I have reached the level where I can juggle and flex a bit because of my level of superiority so have no chip on my shoulder or axe to grind ...however I think that a number of the comments on here have been fairly patronising towards those who do not have the sort of high powered jobs or ambitions that compel some others .Of course caring for a child can have boring moments ,I admit to being bored myself but don't all jobs have those boring parts ,surely those in professional practice can't say that they have always been rivetted by filling in a timesheet or arguing about fees with a client,all jobs however powerful and exhilarating have to have their boring bits.
At no point has Mrs S ever said that any of these peoples jobs are boring or unrewarding,but quite a few of the working women on here ,not all, have felt free to comment that they could not possibly contemplate a job as boring (mindnumbing I think one poster called it) as looking after a baby all day.
The original poster asked if she could have a full on career and be a mum,of course she can if she wants to ,I do,but why denigrate the people who have chosen not to,if you come on here and ask opinions some people will express the opinion that you can't have something ,we're not known for our reticence on this board, .I am sure you don't intend to come accross as looking down on others who may have more nebulous jobs or careers like running their own business or a shop but you do at times I am afraid.

By the way my mother worked fulltime,I had a good example,it kept her sane and to me as a mother of sons it is important that they have a good role model and will hopefully support their future partners,but I do regret some of the milestones that I missed .I also regret my parents divorce and the fact that my mother missed quite a few occaisions in my childhood,however I also know that my education and standard of living was and is better because of her career so there is always a trade off ,you just have to always keep and eye on that trade off and be ready to move the goalposts if it isn't working for you.

Cocktails in NY sounds like a great idea

If I have "looked down" on anyone in any of my posts then I apologise, I certainly wasn't my intention.

Anyway, life has a funny way of sorting itself out - we've had a new round of redundancies announced internally in the bank, and there's a fair chance I may end up on "the list" what with working less hours than everyone else in my area . Time to get back in touch with the head-hunters who've been calling for the last month!

Have to say though, even if the worst happened and I have to take a couple of months out I'll still be looking to get back into the job market doing the same kind of job! Would be a good opportunity to lay the cards on the table to an employer and let them know I have commitments at home I guess.

SO is investment banking really only 8-6.30? I imagined 7-8 TBH.

Friend of mine thold me the other day she could have had her pick of jobs if she'd been prepared to work FT. ((not IB but similar city role) so I'm sure something will come up, meantime it's monkey music and baby signing for you!!

(Am also interested so many said nanny)

To say you find housework and babycare boring is not to look down on people that do it. I don't those of us who see it as very dull (as many working parents including many fathers do) means we are saying there is anything wrong with women and men who love it. It's just we think it's tedious if you do it day in day out. People might find it hard to believe someone can find accountancy or journalism or surgery interesting. We all have different views on what is interesting and what is not.

As for nannies we just found it more flexible, nicer because the child is in its own house, cheaper because if you have 3 or ultimately 5 children as we did the economics of it are just cheaper too and you have more control - you hire and are in charge of the nanny and often they will if necessary stay later (if they don't live in) whereas nurseries are not quite so flexible. But plenty of men and women use nurseries and find that works okay too. Children can be sick quite a bit and if they're at home with the nanny there's no issue over that. If you have to leave work because they're told to leave nursery that day then it's a big problem. on the other hand some nannies get sick where the nursery won't close just because one employee there gets sick. We had very goo nannies who are hardly ever sick, may be one day off in 2 years kind of thing.

MsS, I wasn't looking down on you, not at all. And I'm sorry if it came over that way, I certainly didn't mean it to. I was just saying that if you found a vocation or something you loved you might feel differently about work because in your post you said you didn't know what you wanted yet. However, it sounds as if what you don't want is to be the junior partner in your joint enterprise with your partner and so I agree with Xenia, you should change that if it'll make you happier.

Btw what I do isn't rocket science or anything remotely interesting, I don't love it but I do more or less enjoy it and it pays well. My objective in recent years has been to earn as much money as possible for as little effort as possible while not making it obvious to who ever I work for

MM, sorry to hear of redundancy. IME it's better to get a job, prove you're good at it and THEN negotiate for reduced hours/flexibility. Laying it on the table at the beginning might mean you don't get the job in the first place imo.

Excellent WWW - actually, I do love my job, its interesting, I am good at it and it pays very well, so all things considered I am lucky. But let's just say that since having the DCs I recognise your objective (and I think DH would go further and say that that was a very fair summary of his as well!)

floaty thanks for that post, it has made me feel better.

Anchovy i feel i must make it clear that i do not "work in my husbands shop" as you put it. As i have said earlier on this thread, my dp and i BOTH own the shop and both have the responsibilty of running it. I do not work in the shop serving customers except on the occations when someone is off sick, then i will cover. We both employ staff to work in the shop and serve our customers. My role is mainly doing the book work, doing staff wages, invoices etc as well as making appropriote changes to the shop and thinking up new ideas. I also do all the computer work for the shop because my dp is useless with one. As i said before, unfortunatly due to the fact that we live in such a male dominated world, my dp is seen as the boss and is called "the boss" while i am "his partner."

When i said i felt i was being looked down upon i meant because there was this huge assumption that just because i don't have my eyes set on a big high flying career that pays loads i must somehow not know what it is like to do a job i like and a job i want to do. The job i do is something i like doing and i want to do it. The assumption that if you haven't trained for a profession and don't earn lots of money you must hate the job you do i quite concerning to me. A friend of mine works in a bag shop, yes i said a bag shop, and she loves it. You don't have to have a big career to love your job you know.

I think Floaty hit the nail on the head when she said that ALL jobs have boring parts whether your a professional, have a regular job or you stay at home with your dc. I know i enjoy my dd far more now she is toddler and interacts with me more.

Wickedwaterwitch, i don't need to change my job because i am happy where i am at the moment. I am trained in a skilled profession, it's not a high flying profession but you can make lots of money doing it. I have chosen to put that on hold for the time being because at the moment my dd and future child are my priority. I don't even know if i will continue in that profession or do something else career wise. My life isn't about me right now and what i want, it's about my dc and my dp. There is plenty of time in my life to focus on me and my profession. Just not right now.

OK, MsS, but that's not what you said earlier.

"By MsSparkle on Wed 16-Apr-08 11:39:09
I am not lucky enough you see to know exactly what i want to do as a career. "

You appear to be contradicting yourself. but actually, it doesn't really matter. You are doing what's best for YOU and that is fine. But if other women make different choices then you have to accept that those choices might be best for them and their circumstances and it's not really OK imo for you to criticise them for those choices.

I don't know what i want to do career wise. I said i wasn't sure if i would continue down the road of my profession or do something else. I have no idea what i want to do.

I know Xenia's said something about this too, but I am struggling with the irony? paradox? inconsistency? blindspot? - something - of

a) MsS's not liking being seen as an equal partner in her & her dp's business "unfortunatly due to the fact that we live in such a male dominated world"

while

b) suggesting MM drop her aspirations because "an unrealistic message is being sent out to women that you can have the baby AND the high flying, long houred work life too. That is just not possible imo"

Just BE the boss, MsS!! - people, inc. all those men, will pick up on it, in due course