Are people just less tolerant of disability accessibility now ?

[Takemeback02]

I have been raising a disabled child 11 years now and the first 5 ish years I never really dealt with many issues regarding to the assistance she received or disability access.
the last 5 years has been a real struggle. Usually transport / theme parks etc

most recently 6 of us went on holiday abroad to a European destination, 2 disabled children who require a lot of extra care with very high medical needs and equipment. We always check the hotels first and we speak to before choosing one that works for us. We picked a hotel that offered reserved disabled Sun beds. We arrived and they offered us 6 ( same as whole party ) but we told them we only needed 3. We chose ones away from the kids sections and to the side of the main pool,
they were reserved everyday. They placed disabled badge stickers on the beds for the duration of our stay. I reckon there
was 3 days out of 10 where we didn’t have an issue with someone taking them. Most would move on once asked but have a little moan as they did it and a few who got obviously very upset.

one of the days was a nightmare, we were at the pool bar and physically saw a women tair off the disabled badge sticker and throw it on the ground. I put it back on before going to get the kids
changed and when I got back lady was on bed and had removed the sticker again and lobbed it on the floor.

I just feel the last few years there is an obvious difference in peopls
Tolerance for accessibility or has it always been this way ?

don’t get me wrong I know from the past actual accessibility had got far better but it just feels like it annoys people now.

This is not the issue. Its that so so so much more is being asked of people now. The proportion of the population accessing disability accommodations and adjustments has risen so much that the rest of us are much more heavily impacted and spend all day every day giving way, queuing longer, bring tolerant of additional noise or disruption in public spaces. Most of the time we are fine with it and try to be empathetic, but we are human.
Sometimes we too are exhausted and drained and our capacity to be constantly putting ourselves second is diminished.

As an example, people may be spending their working day doing a much higher proportion of the bits of their job they like least, because now several in their team have a special accommodation or adjustment and arent able to do that task. In the past maybe 1 in 20 of the team might have been accommodated thus... Now kts maybe 4,5 people with an adjustment, and fewer left to share the additional burden.
Now those people leave work that bit more tired every day, feeling just that little bit less empathetic. Then at the weekend they take the kids to a day out and find they spend the day in huge queues. Their toddler wets themselves waiting in a huge queue for the toilets because they daren't quickly use the (currently free) disabled loo for fear they will be judged.
In the cafe, they are asked to be tolerant of another customer whose child is mid-meltdown and screaming in a high pitched way for over 40 mins. In the past the child in meltdown would have been taken outside. Now that's less likely.
They feel guilty for feeling it as know they shouldn't... But feel a flash of annoyance.
People can only cope with so much.

Surely no parent would be self-absorbed enough to allow their child to scream in a cafe for 40 minutes? I've worked in some rough places over the years but I've never seen this.

I do believe it's the area where I live which I am stuck in until my children leave school due to co-parenting. When I go to less run-down/less poverty-stricken areas - like Cheshire, anywhere in the South West or The Lake District, people are generally kinder and more tolerant. I feel like people who have had a hard life are more envious of people getting something they aren't. Or try to punch down on people they see as lowlier than themselves. As they say, happy people don't try to make other people unhappy... and the bullied turn into bullies.

Can I just point out as well, that there is no war between buggy users and wheelchair users. I'm a disabled mum. I have written to Cosatto and other companies many times to ask for their help in designing an affordable wheelchair accessible pram or attachment for holding a young baby for use on flat ground. They ignored me. BUT when I was able to walk and use public transport I used a sling. I had a 2yr old walking and a baby wrap. It did hurt me as I was disabled and found lifting difficult but I wore my child as long as I could because it never occurred me to try and get a pram on a packed bus. I would hire the little push around carts when I got to my destination, to save my 2yr oldest legs, or use a trolley at the supermarket. Most of the time we were going somewhere with seats. When we did use a pram, I took advantage of the fact it was saving my back/hips and we went on a long walk/got a taxi. My eldest went on a buggy board because a double pram for a child who can stand just felt a step in the wrong direction. It was more difficult and involved planning but these are options that someone with a pram has, but a wheelchair user can't just choose to leave their wheelchair at home or fold it. Is it too much to ask to put a basic sling in your pram basket and fold the buggy up? Because if it is then I would take a hard look at yourself.

@VickyEadieofThigh "equalities and diversity" don't seem to include disability at all. There was a brief period when employers, etc paid a bit of attention but they really don't bother any more.

^ This, exactly.

In my workplace EDI now only applies to middle class, sharp-elbowed, non-disabled and usually white women who claim to have "fought hard" to be promoted etc., even when they are woefully under-qualified.

EDI box ticked.

If you're disabled, black or even an older 'pale and stale' male (yes, that phrase is actually used!) it's well-known that you won't get a promotion, no matter how well qualified or experienced you are, so you don't apply for one.

This. As the parent of a disabled DC I encounter this attitude from people out and about, that my DC is in their way and taking resources and 'perks' they want for themselves. The contempt and sheer hatred is unmistakeable when you encounter it, as we frequently do.

And this from people (including a few posters on here) who would consider themselves decent people. For the avoidance of doubt: this is a Nazi attitude. The disabled were one of the very first groups turned on by the Nazis who saw them as a drain on the country. Didn't even bother persecuting them; just killed them.

So anyone who wants to be a decent person will not entertain thinking or acting like this.

I have never succeeded in putting a sling on alone. I hate the things.
I never used buses with my baby either so it wasn't an issue aside from on holiday and if I had I would have dismounted the bus to make way for a wheelchair user.

But on a practical level, I don't think it's physically possible for a mum to safely put on a sling, place the newborn in it and somehow fold her buggy by herself without hurting the baby. Especially in a cramped space in a time crunch.

Children often are really struggling with things like waiting, clothes they don't like, environments they don't like - even if they are just average children with no extra issues. Many children have to wait to do certain things until they can behave as expected and it takes all their self-control.

I think sometimes we underestimate how hard they need to work at this stuff.

Yesterday I was helping a friend set up an event she was organising. It was a fundraising ball for a charity she helped with. One of the other organisers discussed putting up a big display thing completely covering the door to the disabled toilets. I asked if there was another accessible toilet at the other end of the venue, as there were 2 sets of 'normal' toilets. And she said "Oh it's ok, we haven't got anyone who'll need them." I asked how she knew and said that no tickets had been bought for anyone in a wheelchair. I told her that I'd only just been diagnosed with a condition that means I have to use disabled toilets for life. She said if anyone there needed it they'd have to ask for the display to be removed. I was absolutely stunned. I asked if during the middle of the fundraising auction or speeches if she was in my shoes she'd fancy getting up on stage to interupt the organisers to tell them she needed the toilet. I think my point sank in.

It was extra disheartening as the charity is one for children with health needs 😡😡

Sounds about right to me.

Mind you even if the disabled toilet could be accessed, what's to say they haven't stored a load of crap in it ?

I went with a friend once to the Glee Club in Brum. The level access was through the deserted diner on the ground floor. Several members of staff had to move chairs out of the way to get to the goods lift which was used to get wheelchairs to the top level where it turned out the accessible loos were used to store the cleaning kit.

I guess disabled folk don't have much to laugh about.

Firstly, I'm so sorry you're going through experiences like this. As a single parent of 2 children with SN I can totally empathise with you. Given my 'kids' are now 17 and 19 I can also confirm that attitudes towards accommodations from the general public are definitely getting worse over the years, but I actually think this is a direct response to improvements in accessibility and accommodations being offered. Almost to say, " ok youve got your dla and the good parking spots, thats enough now" I have blue badge myself due to my own disabilities and on more than one occasion, specifically where parking was an hard to find or expensive, have been told I was 'Lucky' to have it...I was literally lost for words, id happily give them the badge if it meant giving them the illness that qualified me for it aswell. Im pretty sure youd happily give up the sunbeds to have children that didnt need accomodations...I'm also well used to the 'you don't look disabled side eye' when I park, or grumbles of queue jumping when using my access card etc. I think the general attitude is that people are happy for disabled people to get help-as long as it doesn't impact them in any way! And God forbid if you have an 'invisible' disability...I really which they would remove the symbol of a wheelchair to represent disabilities-it just adds to these attitudes

Wow, you actually said all that out loud! This has actually lost for words, which is especially impressive because I have ADHD and literally never shut up...

I will trade my disability benefits, Access passes, free carer tickets. Blue badge parking and all the other 'perks' (your assume)I get to anyone who feels they are being unfairly treated by being asked to make too many accomodatiobs for disabled people...All you have to do is give me your perfectly healthyvbody and brain and take mine instead. Anyone? I'll wait🧐

I think what you need to do is consider the effect standing in large queues has on nd kids. Compared to an NT kid.
A neurotypical kid who had to wait in line for and hour or 2 -you say they 'can't stand for 2 hours-,why not? Would they be uncomfortable, probably, but no harm would come as a result, they will very likely be annoyed, irritated, angry and fed up. But, as soon as they had ridden the line is forgotten and they've enjoyed their ride and their day.
A ND could have become so overwhelmed and anxious that by time they ride they do not even register the ride, their hearts are racing, their cortisol and adrenalin has spiked causing both emotional and physical symptoms of anxiety, they are hyper vigilant and in fight or flight mode. They have become so overwhelmed by the lights, sounds,smells in the environment that they are not even able to communicate to anyone what they are suffering. Then after and entire day of this, when they get home the go into complete meltdown. While the neurotypical kid having dinner and excitedly talking with their parents and siblings, but they wont be talking about the long line they will be talking about their favourite ride, teasing dad because he screamed like a baby on the big rollercoaster and dreaming about when they can go back and do it all over again, meanwhile they ND kids family had to leave theme park early, and the child has cried all the way home, and for another 3 solid hours at home, they punch and bite themselves, they head butt walls and floors, and NOTHING can be done for them other than to wait it out, and this doesn't even take into consideration how a parent feels whilst watching their child go through this or the fact the rest of the familys day was cut short, Now, tell me again how unfair it is on the NT kids and their families that the ND kids get to skip the line.

And realistically, how much shorter do you think the line would be without them 'skipping the line' believe me, it's not the difference between a 30 min wait and a 2 hour wait...your looking at maybe and extra 20 mins at maximum. Why not aim your frustrations at the people who buy the fast tracks simply because they don't want wait rather than can't. They are adding more time to the line than the ND kids...or would you be fine with the ND kids skipping as long as they paid for it?

Why on earth would you put a ND child through this whole experience if they're going to be so badly affected? Who is the experience for? The parents? It sounds like torture for the child.

You don't LET an autistic child have a meltdown, and there's nothing that can be done to stop it. In the past a child having a tantrum would be removed. Trying to Move a child in crisis can make it 100 times worse. So what would you have the Parent do?

It does sound like torture doesnt it? Why would anyone want to put a child through that? If only there were something we could do that would mean ND kids had a chance to enjoy a theme park without going through this, like, I dunno, say allowing nd kids to not have to stand in long lines ? 🤔

This sigh

"people can only cope with so much"
Yeah. That's called access fatigue.

I get the point re work, but it is usually a management issue and not the fault of the disabled workers. Endless pushes to get disabled people in work but any adjustments are asking too much of the workplace.

The rest of it. Wow. Sorry having to tolerate the existence of disabled people in public is hard for you.
Access fatigue means getting worn down by the lack of access. Take the job example. You had to ask for the interview to be in a wheelchair accessible building or for the information to be given in an accessible format. If you're lucky enough to get it and not be screened out as too much hard work (not that you can ever prove it was because you're disabled), you have to go through HR to get the necessary adjustments put in place. That takes months, until you're practically burned out and off sick. Now your colleagues resent you for "having it easier".
If you're really lucky you might have the energy to take the kids on a day out at the weekend. The access information isn't detailed enough on the website so you have to ring up to check that there's accessible toilets and you can get into the attraction. Usually whoever is on the phone doesn't actually know, or lies, so when you turn up you realise you can't acess half of what you've paid for. Maybe you have to bring your PIP paperwork with all its personal information and show it to strangers, or apply for an access card so you can bring a carer or use the access queues. You have urge incontinence, and when you go to the bathroom someone is on the phone in the accessible loo. They come out, see you, and rush off shamefacedly but it's too late by then, you've wet yourself.
Then you go to the cafe, and there's a step so you have to send your kid or partner in to ask for the ramp. The staff eventually find it, and roll their eyes when they think you aren't looking because it's busy and they don't have time for this. You have dietary needs because of your condition, so you have to ask for the allergens menu. The card reader is too high up and the staff member has to come out from behind the counter again to help. You're now holding up the queue and people are sighing and tutting at you.
You feel a flash of annoyance because all this shouldn't still be happening but you're used to it, so you're mostly just tired. So tired.

People can only cope with so much.

Another thing I think people don't realise with disability accommodations is that they aren't given out of the goodness of people's hearts. They're there because disabled people fought for them.
Take the wheelchair spaces. We have them because a few decades ago wheelchair users chained themselves to buses in protest. We don't have pram spaces because nobody uses prams for long enough to be bothered to chain it to a bus. And because they can just use the wheelchair spaces.

Superbly put. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

I was out with my daughter the other day, and actually ignored the 'accessible' options offered several times because the hassle of asking for them to be made available, or how many people you had to go to find out how to use an accomodation or where it was, was more difficult than using the 'general' facilities....

On a more positive note, my local library is in a big old house, and only recently has it had public toilets installed. Not only new loos, which are a big plus for the park and library users, it has also had a ‘Changing Places’ toilet installed.

People just seem nastier now. About virtually everything and in all sorts of circumstances. For example I drive a lot for work and the driving of other road users is crazy. No one is courteous. So cutting in, jumping queues, shouting, screaming, gestures. It's awful. People in general seem only interested in themselves and getting more, quicker than other people. It's really sad.