Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are people just less tolerant of disability accessibility now ?

470 replies

Takemeback02 · 10/07/2024 15:46

I have been raising a disabled child 11 years now and the first 5 ish years I never really dealt with many issues regarding to the assistance she received or disability access.
the last 5 years has been a real struggle. Usually transport / theme parks etc

most recently 6 of us went on holiday abroad to a European destination, 2 disabled children who require a lot of extra care with very high medical needs and equipment. We always check the hotels first and we speak to before choosing one that works for us. We picked a hotel that offered reserved disabled Sun beds. We arrived and they offered us 6 ( same as whole party ) but we told them we only needed 3. We chose ones away from the kids sections and to the side of the main pool,
they were reserved everyday. They placed disabled badge stickers on the beds for the duration of our stay. I reckon there
was 3 days out of 10 where we didn’t have an issue with someone taking them. Most would move on once asked but have a little moan as they did it and a few who got obviously very upset.

one of the days was a nightmare, we were at the pool bar and physically saw a women tair off the disabled badge sticker and throw it on the ground. I put it back on before going to get the kids
changed and when I got back lady was on bed and had removed the sticker again and lobbed it on the floor.

I just feel the last few years there is an obvious difference in peopls
Tolerance for accessibility or has it always been this way ?

don’t get me wrong I know from the past actual accessibility had got far better but it just feels like it annoys people now.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
BurnerName1 · 11/07/2024 14:17

You literally have no idea what I wrote I barely remember myself now. Something to the effect that certain factions of the 'ND community' act as though it's the only 'disability'. As I said I'm ND myself but MNHQ wouldn't be interested in that.

5128gap · 11/07/2024 14:39

Definitely. The number of people eligible for and taking up opportunities for special access arrangements has increased hugely, both in numbers and scope of disability covered. People were more tolerant and understanding of accessibility for the occasional 'visibly disabled' person than they are of the increased numbers of people who 'look fine' to them. I think if you have a hidden disability and particularly if you have a child with a hidden disability you are likely to encounter people who think you're 'trying it on', especially if your access causes them to have to queue longer for example.

ValleyClouds · 11/07/2024 14:58

@trekking1

I can't remember the title - sorry

LadyKenya · 11/07/2024 15:20

It might seem strange that people could envy refugees fleeing their country, or someone with a disability, but to those who are poorly educated or lacking in intelligence, the simple fact that the refugee has a smartphone or the person with a disability a nice car is enough for them to classify them as " better off then me" and therefore start resenting any help given.

This is very true. It is a shame that those same people do not look upwards at the people taking, and hoarding more than they need to. Instead they turn their attention to weaker, more vulnerable members of Society, whose life is already mostly difficult.

SoreAndTired1 · 12/07/2024 05:55

LadyKenya · 11/07/2024 08:47

Absolutely yes. Disabled people are not a monolith and indeed do have other struggles, and layers that they have to cope with in life, such as racism, and transphobia, which are increasing imo.

I think what's rising is femphobia and misogyny. When a woman in a wheelchair who also cannot speak (but can type) is told by people she has no right to intimate care by a female to change her sanitary pads and if she requests a feme to wash, change her pads and dress her she is told is 'transphobic' and the male trans thug uses his connections to dox her, then sends her, this woman who cannot speak and cannot walk, images of him receiving oral sex from another trans person, that is a double layer of disability. Being a female and being completely defenceless to men. I'm not talking about Trans Privilege/MRAs here, but of femphobia, misogyny and trans terrorism and the rights of a vulnerable woman who is traumatised, can't move, can't speak, needs someone to shower dress and clothe her and change her blood soaked sanitary pads and all for that basic request of dignity, was told she should die and "lucky you can't speak you 'r' " by trans terrorists. Google Henrietta Freeman.

SoreAndTired1 · 12/07/2024 06:18

Gingerbreadvan · 10/07/2024 21:57

I think actually the closer you get to equality for any group, the more you get resentment. Adaptations for disability have improved enormously but as the gap has started closing the perception of need has decreased as things are now ‘almost fair’.

You see the same with feminism. We have reached a point of equality in many areas and it means any accommodations for women are highly resented, leading to MRAs and Andrew Tate

You see the same with feminism. We have reached a point of equality in many areas and it means any accommodations for women are highly resented, leading to MRAs and Andrew Tate

This exactly. Femphobia and misogyny is seen a massive increase recently, with increased assaults; both physical and sexual, on women. Never at any stage in history have women had less rights. Seriously and genuinely. We have less rights than we did in the 60s. We've gone backwards, Mens Rights have been propelled forwards. This is especially true if you are a vulnerable female in a wheelchair. Yet males seem to think us women and girls get 'privileges' just by being female. I have never been more scared and felt more unsafe as a female, I stay home a lot and don't participate society as much. This is true for many women and girls I know. Safer to stay home and cut yourself off from society.

Aconite20 · 12/07/2024 06:29

My partner is now disabled (years of frontline nursing including COVID plus genetic inheritance) and at present we don't have a car. It has really opened my eyes to how bloody awful and difficult it is to go anywhere if you have a disability. This is someone who gave almost 30 years of their life to the NHS and used to be very fit. It both breaks my heart and infuriates me.

Sirzy · 12/07/2024 07:10

One thing I have noticed a lot - and more so as DS gets older - is people treat him different if he is in his wheelchair compared to if he on a better day and doesn’t need it.

dont get me wrong you get arseholes either way but on the whole people are much more accommodating when they can see that someone is disabled.

soupfiend · 12/07/2024 07:18

ihatecoffee · 10/07/2024 17:48

This thread has got me thinking.
I'm cabin crew and recently we carried a lovely lady on board who couldn't walk. She had no use of her legs at all and had to crawl to the toilet.

She had two carers with her.

I got chatting to her and found she'd spent a week in London on holiday.

I actually asked her about UK attitudes towards her and her disability.

Her reply?

London was absolutely amazing!!!

She was so impressed with our tubes and buses. Said everyone went out of their way to help her. Even down to tube stations showing whether or not they are wheelchair friendly by showing lifts or stair logos.

Theatres, restaurants, shops...she was so impressed!

She came from a Scandinavian country and said it wasn't just attitudes towards her there that were appalling, but facilities and lack of access to retail outlets, theatres etc were severely lacking.
As for public transport, she said she didn't use it but had to rely on her carers to drive her around!

I was wondering about this, when we visit other countries I very rarely see how people with mobitility needs let alone wheelchairs would get around and in and out of shops.

The Madrid metro for example, some of the stations have lifts but not only is it often impossible to find the lift and it doesnt go straight down you have to keep changing floors and then re finding the lift, but often they were closed and not all stations had them anyway so you might get on at one station easily and then not be able to get out at the other end.
But also, in terms of general getting around, not just Madrid, other Spanish and Italian cities and towns, I couldnt see that the shops were accessible at all, they're all in quite old buildings, with steps in and out, and they're not possible for conversion either, and the toilets are hard enough (and not great) for able bodied people, let alone wheelchair users. I noticed that I see very few people out and about in wheelchairs or with mobility issues that are obvious when we visit places abroad.

CaptainCrocs · 12/07/2024 07:26

itsgettingweird · 10/07/2024 18:18

I'm not entirely sure it's down to this.

My ds has a physical disability. It's pretty obvious. Attitudes have changed towards him too. People still think it's fine to park in a disabled space because "they'll only be a minute and there's plenty more further along".

I think it is down to this. People boasting on Facebook about everything they manage to get done at Disney thanks to their access pass. Walking straight on, jumping to the front at shows whilst everyone else is queuing for hours, getting on hardly any rides and missing shows. Whether fair or not it’s bound to cause resentment. Is it equal access or is it much better access that actually makes things worse for others.

Seymour5 · 12/07/2024 08:46

I’m in my 70s, I have a BB, I also have a senior bus pass. My main disability is mobility, sometimes I use a stick for balance. I don’t always park in marked bays, especially at supermarkets as I can walk pretty well holding a trolley. My beef is about public transport.

On the tram, there are accessible seats for people with mobility issues. There are signs saying the seats are for people with reduced mobility. There are pictures to help those who can’t read, or who don’t read English. So, why do so many people without mobility issues choose those seats, even when there are plenty of others available? Difficulty with walking is a mobility issue. Older age doesn’t necessarily mean disability, but it often brings frailty and poor balance. It’s also pretty obvious. But we’re either ignored or resented by some as boomers due to ‘having it all’!

A big thank you to those people who are aware of need, and react accordingly. It is much appreciated.

TigerRag · 12/07/2024 08:48

Seymour5 · 12/07/2024 08:46

I’m in my 70s, I have a BB, I also have a senior bus pass. My main disability is mobility, sometimes I use a stick for balance. I don’t always park in marked bays, especially at supermarkets as I can walk pretty well holding a trolley. My beef is about public transport.

On the tram, there are accessible seats for people with mobility issues. There are signs saying the seats are for people with reduced mobility. There are pictures to help those who can’t read, or who don’t read English. So, why do so many people without mobility issues choose those seats, even when there are plenty of others available? Difficulty with walking is a mobility issue. Older age doesn’t necessarily mean disability, but it often brings frailty and poor balance. It’s also pretty obvious. But we’re either ignored or resented by some as boomers due to ‘having it all’!

A big thank you to those people who are aware of need, and react accordingly. It is much appreciated.

Edited

Not everyone has an obvious mobility disability. I don't always use my mobility cane (because for reasons only known to everyone else, I get walked into more) but I can't stand on moving transport.

ruethewhirl · 12/07/2024 10:12

BurnerName1 · 11/07/2024 14:17

You literally have no idea what I wrote I barely remember myself now. Something to the effect that certain factions of the 'ND community' act as though it's the only 'disability'. As I said I'm ND myself but MNHQ wouldn't be interested in that.

Interesting that you seem to have forgotten your reference to 'whining'. Plus heavy implication that some who claim to be neurodivergent are either lying, or making excessively heavy weather of things. Hope that helps refresh your memory.

Sirzy · 12/07/2024 11:14

Seymour5 · 12/07/2024 08:46

I’m in my 70s, I have a BB, I also have a senior bus pass. My main disability is mobility, sometimes I use a stick for balance. I don’t always park in marked bays, especially at supermarkets as I can walk pretty well holding a trolley. My beef is about public transport.

On the tram, there are accessible seats for people with mobility issues. There are signs saying the seats are for people with reduced mobility. There are pictures to help those who can’t read, or who don’t read English. So, why do so many people without mobility issues choose those seats, even when there are plenty of others available? Difficulty with walking is a mobility issue. Older age doesn’t necessarily mean disability, but it often brings frailty and poor balance. It’s also pretty obvious. But we’re either ignored or resented by some as boomers due to ‘having it all’!

A big thank you to those people who are aware of need, and react accordingly. It is much appreciated.

Edited

But you can’t know anyone’s need. Yes if you can leave those seats you should but people need them for a variety of reasons.

my son is 14, if he was out without his wheelchair he would need a seat on public transport, standing isn’t an option for him. He is as entitled to an accessible seat as you and shouldn’t be made to feel unworthy just because he is young.

in my experience with DS sadly the group which is often the most judgemental is those who are older (not all by a long way many are fantastic) and your post screams of the level of entitlement shown by some older people

BurnerName1 · 12/07/2024 11:21

ruethewhirl · 12/07/2024 10:12

Interesting that you seem to have forgotten your reference to 'whining'. Plus heavy implication that some who claim to be neurodivergent are either lying, or making excessively heavy weather of things. Hope that helps refresh your memory.

Would it be fair to say that some people DO whine? Never heard the phrase 'make heavy weather of things' but I like it, I'll borrow it from you in future. I'm ND myself but some online groups and posters have driven me away from that whole arena. The endless victimhood of a few while simultaneously rejecting any implication that THEIR neurodivergence might be 'milder' than someone who can't talk, can't feed themselves, soils themselves, has zero danger awareness, will never live independently etc.

That was my point really. Some of the loudest voices talking about disabilities and claiming the most accommodations are ironically those who least need them. For example I've seen parents on here in real distress because all the local ND support groups are aimed at children who are a bit quirky rather than their severely impaired child. It's not about disability top trumps as someone put it earlier it's about realistic assessment of impairment.

BurnerName1 · 12/07/2024 11:24

Sirzy · 12/07/2024 11:14

But you can’t know anyone’s need. Yes if you can leave those seats you should but people need them for a variety of reasons.

my son is 14, if he was out without his wheelchair he would need a seat on public transport, standing isn’t an option for him. He is as entitled to an accessible seat as you and shouldn’t be made to feel unworthy just because he is young.

in my experience with DS sadly the group which is often the most judgemental is those who are older (not all by a long way many are fantastic) and your post screams of the level of entitlement shown by some older people

I'm sorry your son experiences this. I do understand it - I gave an example earlier in the thread of the person who was trying to 'hijack' my airport assistance.

I think a lot of people still don't understand that sometimes people use a wheelchair part time.

MrHarleyQuin · 12/07/2024 11:28

A Kent Councillor said last year that parents only applied for EHCPs to get benefits which explained a lot of the attitude I got dealing with the school and others which looks to blame parents and avoid any responsibility for the services they are supposed to provide.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/calls-for-councillors-to-be-sacked-after-comments-on-childre-286923/

Fucking hell, nothing could have been further from my mind. I earn way too much to get benefits.

Calls for councillors to be sacked after comments on children with SEN

Parents of children with special educational needs have been left outraged after a councillor claimed it was “in” to have a care plan.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/calls-for-councillors-to-be-sacked-after-comments-on-childre-286923

BurnerName1 · 12/07/2024 11:31

MrHarleyQuin · 12/07/2024 11:28

A Kent Councillor said last year that parents only applied for EHCPs to get benefits which explained a lot of the attitude I got dealing with the school and others which looks to blame parents and avoid any responsibility for the services they are supposed to provide.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/calls-for-councillors-to-be-sacked-after-comments-on-childre-286923/

Fucking hell, nothing could have been further from my mind. I earn way too much to get benefits.

A SENCO once told me the same and sadly there are some cases where it's probably true.

TigerRag · 12/07/2024 11:37

But at the same time, I've encountered SENCO who were trying to convince me I'm Dyslexic because an online assessment says so. The ed psychologist who assessed me, (I only got an assessment to shut SENCO up) says I can't be Dyslexic because my logic too good.

SpudleyLass · 12/07/2024 12:53

BurnerName1 · 12/07/2024 11:31

A SENCO once told me the same and sadly there are some cases where it's probably true.

It's not true ffs. An EHCP does not require a diagnosis.

Teentaxidriver · 12/07/2024 12:59

NotSayingImBatman · 10/07/2024 16:09

Not surprising when British citizens in particular have spent the past 14 years being told the disabled are all work shy drains on the public purse and if they’d just do the decent thing and die, then everyone else would be better off.

Except this happened abroad at a European destination and the OP doesn’t describe the woman in question as British. So your inflammatory comment in your first sentence doesn’t apply.

BurnerName1 · 12/07/2024 13:04

SpudleyLass · 12/07/2024 12:53

It's not true ffs. An EHCP does not require a diagnosis.

I'm not saying it does. I'm saying that's the perception amongst even some SENCOs. Some parents push for an EHCP in order to form a paper trail of evidence in order to get benefits for their child.

This was ten years ago by the way. I'd say a lot has changed since then. Even children who NEED support in schools aren't getting it.

Sorry OP not trying to derail the thread btw I'm just responding to a post.

SpudleyLass · 12/07/2024 13:07

BurnerName1 · 12/07/2024 13:04

I'm not saying it does. I'm saying that's the perception amongst even some SENCOs. Some parents push for an EHCP in order to form a paper trail of evidence in order to get benefits for their child.

This was ten years ago by the way. I'd say a lot has changed since then. Even children who NEED support in schools aren't getting it.

Sorry OP not trying to derail the thread btw I'm just responding to a post.

Not all SENcos are created equal. I'm sure thr horrible Senco at the last mainstream thr ableist council tried to force my ND daughter into thought we were making shit up, but we weren't.

The one at the mainstream before did everything she could to help us and I keep her updated to this day on my daughter's progress.

Senco's are not experts on disability.

WeWillGetThereInTheEnd · 12/07/2024 13:09

So, why do so many people without mobility issues choose those seats, even when there are plenty of others available? Difficulty with walking is a mobility issue.

I can’t stand on moving transport either, due to a medical problem, which is ok when walking!

Britneyfan · 12/07/2024 13:09

Like others I think partly worsening attitudes to disabled people, which is definitely a thing, has a lot to do with the last government’s appalling scapegoating of people with disabilities and encouragement of “woke culture wars” to distract from the absolute carnage they inflicted on the economy and U.K. as a whole. I would also agree that people in general in the U.K. are getting more selfish, and more individualistic rather than community-minded over the past few decades (I personally think the decline of Christianity in the U.K. as well as an increase in capitalistic thinking are responsible for this) and that change was undoubtably made worse by an individualistic ideology in government for over a decade as well as the more recent pandemic situation, where people naturally started to worry most about themselves and their immediate family or those closest to them emotionally. The huge societal changes in neurodiversity and poor mental health, which historically would not have been seen as disabilities except the most severely affected, has contributed also (and for neurodiversity this extends to increased diagnosis also). Hidden disabilities are being much more recognised than previously but the older generations in particular don’t necessarily accept these as what they really and truly consider a “real” disability due to the rapid pace of social change.

There has been a huge pace of sociocultural and economic change taking place in the past decade or so in our society, which has an impact, and I don’t think this is being talked about enough. The pandemic accelerated trends already happening to a huge degree so we have had very rapid change happening. The impact of the pandemic itself on all of our psyches has been completely swept under the carpet to an astonishing degree, there seems to be an unspoken agreement that we should just pretend it never happened which is ridiculous. And although I agree as a country we are not “starving”, the truth is that although the super-wealthy are fine, much of the country is actually “starving”. Maybe not literally, which is only thanks to the multitude of food banks we now have which were not previously necessary, but basic public services for nearly everything have been cut to the bone and are not functioning well, and almost everyone’s quality of life has reduced with the cost of living crisis, plus stress levels have gone up as just meeting our basic needs is increasingly difficult, let alone being able to access the small luxuries we used to take for granted. This definitely means there is a sense of scarcity which always creates panic and selfish behaviour (remember the toilet roll crisis during COVID?), but I think it’s silly to say that the scarcity isn’t real even though I agree perhaps we should also all be “counting our blessings” a little more and recognise that at least we are not living in Gaza etc.

When I first had a baby and went out on the buses with a buggy I was shocked to discover that we are supposed to somehow “share” the wheelchair space on buses. In my oblivious previous life, I’d simply never thought about it or noticed the problem. That’s a ridiculous thing which just pits 2 groups of people in need against each other. I agree in a head-on clash the person in a wheelchair clearly needs the space more, but the point is, it would be so much better if buses were built to accommodate both groups ie have a space for both. Especially given they can now put those fold up seats in so if they aren’t being used, it’s not like seats are lost. That whole clash only happens because of actual scarcity of those spaces.

Regarding the original post this didn’t even happen in the U.K. anyway I think, but in some other countries attitudes to disability are even worse. Unfortunately OP it’s easy to miss the odd tube or wire unless you are looking closely, especially if you are an older person with poor eyesight. Plus in some other countries there are those that still would not regard a child with such things as disabled unless they are literally in a wheelchair. I’m not justifying that, just stating a fact, in some countries particularly for older generations, if you are not in a wheelchair you are not disabled end of. Given that this woman went to the extent of removing the disability sticker it suggests to me that she had a serious problem with that “label” being applied to your kids unfortunately. I’m sorry this happened to you, it’s shit.

I really hope somehow that things are going to change for the better in the future in the U.K. at least. A lot of progress HAS been made when looked at through some lenses, in terms of “official” channels there is much more recognition of disability (though sad to read that in so many cases just lip service is being paid to it in reality in terms of wheelchair accessible spaces etc in this day and age), but the general public aren’t totally on board with it it seems. I agree with others though that from my age (Xennial) and below the attitudes towards disability are in general more encouraging and less extreme. The youngest generations (Z and alpha) are I think generally amazingly understanding of disability and considerate of others, even if they sometimes in my opinion misunderstand nuanced situations and can be too dogmatic in their thinking. And we now have a new government. So there is hope for the future.