Are people just less tolerant of disability accessibility now ?

[Takemeback02]

I have been raising a disabled child 11 years now and the first 5 ish years I never really dealt with many issues regarding to the assistance she received or disability access.
the last 5 years has been a real struggle. Usually transport / theme parks etc

most recently 6 of us went on holiday abroad to a European destination, 2 disabled children who require a lot of extra care with very high medical needs and equipment. We always check the hotels first and we speak to before choosing one that works for us. We picked a hotel that offered reserved disabled Sun beds. We arrived and they offered us 6 ( same as whole party ) but we told them we only needed 3. We chose ones away from the kids sections and to the side of the main pool,
they were reserved everyday. They placed disabled badge stickers on the beds for the duration of our stay. I reckon there
was 3 days out of 10 where we didn’t have an issue with someone taking them. Most would move on once asked but have a little moan as they did it and a few who got obviously very upset.

one of the days was a nightmare, we were at the pool bar and physically saw a women tair off the disabled badge sticker and throw it on the ground. I put it back on before going to get the kids
changed and when I got back lady was on bed and had removed the sticker again and lobbed it on the floor.

I just feel the last few years there is an obvious difference in peopls
Tolerance for accessibility or has it always been this way ?

don’t get me wrong I know from the past actual accessibility had got far better but it just feels like it annoys people now.

Well no because without the disability, the family would be able to go through with each other and not be split. That's un equal treatment due to disability. Also the disabled person will still be waiting the same amount of time as they wait for the other half of the group so then no accomadation. Surely you'd just be thankful neither you nor your family member were unwell, rather than be concerned they were getting some sort of advantage you weren't?

I dunno. You tell me specifically what each indicidul autistic person struggles with, and I'll yell you why it's the q that's the problem and not the crowds, or if they just couldn't go at all. Or if they have a need for a q jump as you put it. Which it actually isn't.

So by your reasoning standing on a q for 2 hours is no different from walking for 2 hours, sitting in a quiet room, having a snack if you have autism? Your logic is entirely logicless.

We are “lucky” in the sense that DS needs to be at places when they open so they are quiet enough for him to have his hour so normally we are ok parking but your right a lot of places the parking options are rubbish.

But of their physical limitations were substantial enough, they would have a blue badge

Not always. And then there's the wait. Mine took 12 weeks to sort.

Oh hold on. I figured out your question. Your confusion is that you don't know how other ND kids aren't exactly the same as yours...well that's easy, it's a spectrum disorder, so by definition, it affects everyone differently. Short and sweet, not like me at all 🤪

If you meet the criteria, you will get one. Mine took about 3 weeks to sort, not sure why that's relevant but as we're sharing.

I remember when ds was in reception his teacher said to me “never forget when you have met one person with Autism you have met one person with Autism” - same applies to any disability.

We shouldn’t stereotype just because of diagnosis

I thought this was a thing ALL asd parents knew, this post has shown me how wrong I was...the ignorance is astounding...and so so harmful

And sometimes. Unfortunayely they will not have the right to sit there at all...and that's just life. The same way I often can't use a disabled bay cause the car park was full, so people start using the blue badge bays...And why becsuse i LOOK fine, i often get looks when i get out of my car in a disable bay, and walk away, with apparently no problems. (What they don't realise is my need is to be able to open my door wide to get in and out, not because I can't walk). I've said it before, and I'll say it again. We need to remove the symbol of a wheel chair to signify disability ( unless its a wheelchair specific provision of course)

its sucks, but life ain't always fair.

But i feel life in general is better if you imagine everyone is having a worse day than you and assume the best in people and drink more water 🫠

I could get the theme park thing if they did a morning at least when it was low crowds disabled only. That makes sense. Or if people did a day when it was completely uncrowded eg a Monday in school term. But for instance going on a Saturday in August and then wanting to avoid the queue - what’s the point - the place is overall heaving.
those 2 rides of 10 minutes are suffered for with 7 hours of crowds, smells, noise etc

I am not saying all ASD is the same - clearly it’s not.

I can’t distinguish from a crowded throng on a path and a queue. So as a way of example of you had to queue to see the king jt would be challenging but the argument seems to be that it’s not challenging to walk down Pall Mall on Coronation day to see the King ( as it’s not a queue just busy ) and you might just might be able to find a quiet spot for 10 minutes that has 6 chairs for thousands of people and you seem content to risk it despite the chances of getting into that quiet spot are remote given the sheer numbers of ASD people there are likely to be there also wanting to see the King.

Back to my analogy I would not dispute that those 2 minutes seeing the King are joyous I just don’t understand how you can mange the wall to wall slow moving throng of thousands of people but not the queue. The whole thing experience surely is one large queue in its way …

a 6 seats in a quiet zone to serve all the likely hundreds of people with ASD who have different types of ASD that means they can enjoy theme parks is not a lot. What happens if this is also crowded? That’s a huge gamble to go there is it not? And for what ? 2 or 4 rides?

I can even get it if you go to a really busy place but have a SEN camp in the centre eg a festival. Disability groups I know do that but they don’t tend to then wander around except really briefly - that area is their shelter/ island where they all stick together.

• but a theme park you have to walk around in the same crowd you are trying to avoid by not queuing.

I mean Thorpe Park is heaving and even none SSn people find it all unpleasant

It seems as crazy to me as taking my DS to NY - he loves travel but we know it’s going to be sheer hell and no accommodation can make that better.

Perhaps just because you have ASD not every needs to skip the queue because as people keep saying when you see someone with ASD you have seen someone with ASD so equally when you see someone with ASD who needs to skip a queue you have seen someone with ASD who needs to skip a queue - maybe not all do. I just think of someone can go to Thorpe Park on a Saturday in August and manage to just get through the entry way ..:

And if you have no sensory need but just trouble with communication eg pragmatic language or semantics / receptive that does not stop queueing. It’s the sensory issue that are the problem in this context

So my DS qualifies for a blue badge but I don’t have one as we don’t need it - as I can escort him door to door but when he does need it o will get one.

Just because you qualify does not mean you need to use it.

What do you mean you can't get pip if your only need is physical mobility? Where did you get that idea from? These literally 2 ways to qualify difficukty with daily living eg cooking, washing, dressing and Mobility. 🤦🏽‍♀️

The waiting time is the same either way as you just wait the other side. Let’s say a child is in a wheelchair for whatever reason, said child is with 2 x parents, 2 x grandparents, an uncle and aunt, 2 x cousins. Why would the rest of the party need to go through with the child and 2 x parents, especially if they’re not needed. There is no unequal treatment there. It’s that sort of thing that people get frustrated with.

"If the ND ASD person can cope with being in a throng of people just walking along the crowded entrances - what stops them queueing"

I'm glad you asked.

I'll tell you how, because firstly, autism is a communication disorder and does not in fact cause any of those issues. A sensory Processing disorder causes those issues, which does commonly occur with autism, but not always, and can even occur alone, ie with no autism, or with other nd conditions such as adhd, dyslexia, dyspraxia, odd, ocd, pda etc etc. It is not a neurodiversity condition in its own right.
So first things first, leave the autistics alone. You are talking about people with a sensory Processing disorder.

Now as I'm sure everyone knows we have 5 senses. A person with spd could have issues with 1, 2, 3, 4 or all 5 senses.
The issue can be that they are over sensitive to stimulation of these senses or under, or it could be both.
Some one with tactile issues, ie touch could hate being touched, could perceive gentle touch as pain or could deliberately self harm due to being so under sensitive to touch that the seek deep pressure and even pain to relieve to symptoms. They could experience both. I won't go into all the senses because that will be long and pointless. I've chosen touch for a reason.

So, here's the scenario.
Jack is autistic, has adhd and a sensory Processing disorder, his favourite thing in the world is roller coasters. His main sense affected by his SPD is touch. He can be both under and over stimulated by it.

Jack, mum, dad a older sister go for a family trip to Thorpe Park. They are granted a ride access pass as standing in line would be very difficult for Jack-ill explain why in a moment-
A RAP is a virtual queuing system, not a q jump, you are allowed 3 people with you. This is how it works. The line for Nemesis is 2 hours. It is 10am. You take your pass to the front of the line, or join the fast track line, and when you get on a worker to signs your pass. They will note the time and the current main line ride q time. Which is 2 hours. He writes on your sheet 'next ride time 12pm.
Jack gets to go on the ride with minimal trauma because he has not had to stand in a crowded line being push, shoved, bumped into, not being able to extend him limbs fully to stretch etc, he is relatively relaxed and enjoys his ridem. He has to wait until 12pm before he can go on an other ride, because thats how long he would have had to wait just like everyone else in the 2 hours he.will have only been on nemesis, the same as the person he would have be next to in the line. Now. Had he been made stand in the q and suffer through the above examples he would have been stressed, over stimulated, anxious, possible in pain. He may have started hitting himself in the head to try and regulate his out of control sensory input. Hev may have started hitting other people due to lack of impulse control caused by his adhd, he may have started shouting and screaming because he was struggling badly and his autism means he doesnt always know what's appropriate in social situations, He usually could lie on the floor with a weighted blanket at home and this would have helped greatly, but he cant do that here jumping up and down and spinning is also something that works for him, but he cant to that here either. So he is now overwhelmed, over stimulated, and about to go into crisis (also known as a meltdown-not to be confused with a tantrum) because he is unable to use any of his usual coping strategies and cannot self regulate. he does not end up on the ride as he has to be removed from the line. He may have become so disregulated they can't even remain in the park and have to go home.

Optional response, Jack 'manage' on the 2 hour line, '
i saw him wait for 2 hours with no issue '
and on the outside looks just fine, they are able to ride but Jack's enjoyment is limited due to the effects of the 2 hour line. The meltdown doesn't happen in the park, it happens at home and lasts. From 7pm til 4am, he eventually exhausts himself and falls asleep on the living room floor. Mum just puts a blanket over him -shes terrified of waking him if she moves him- and she grabs a couple of hours on the sofa next to him
With the RAP being given as an accomadation, Jack appears like every other lad his age, and people in the q are wondering why this kid who didn't seem to have any issues gets to q jump. Its really not fair, their kids dont like queuing either. Mum hears this and is very upset, Dad hears this and is very angry, older very protective siblings hears this and tells the person exactly what they can do with their opinion-Mum does a half arsed job of telling her she shouldn't do that but is secretly very proud of her.

Even with the q jump accomodation,the family's day has already been sullied, but they try to enjoy the rest of the day. For the next 2 hours they wander around the park, spend some time at 'the beach' and spend a little time in the 'quiet space' thorpe park so thoughtfully provide. They have brought some sensory aids with them, and make them available for Jack, should he choose or feel the need to use them.
2 hours has now passed and we move on to stealth, again presenting the rap, the ride wait here is 1 hour. So the next ride time is 1pm. Stealth last about 20 seconds. They ride stealth Jack is having a great day. It's nice to see him happy, he doesn't get out much, never gets invited to parties or play dates, due to Jack's care needs and parents work schedules, this is a rare and precious moment of family time too. Mum again notices people's distain as yet another kids with 'no real issues' gets to 'jump the q'
Theyvec probably been on 5 rides already were been here 3 hourd and only on our secon. She takes a deep breathe and ignores it, she should be used to it by now. They spend the next hour having some lunch. I'm sure you get the picture by now, so I won't finish the rest of 'Jack's day'

Any Questions?

Do people usually split the families up like that when they're out as a group?

The fact that there are many people who walk slowly doesn't mean that we should take away the accommodations made for people who are disabled enough to qualify for a blue badge, that's just odd.
As for disability benefits covering all the extra costs, ha bloody ha. https://www.scope.org.uk/campaigns/extra-costs check this out. Households with one disabled person on average have extra costs of £925/ month. Even the absolute maximum PIP comes to £737.20 / month. And that's with higher rate for both mobility and daily living. Plus PIP can take months or even years to get the correct rate. Yes disability benefits are supposed to cover the extra costs, but the extra costs are probably wildly more and across way more areas than you're imagining.

Just because you qualify does not mean you need to use it.

If you qualify for it, it's because you have been assessed as someone who would benefit from it. So the likelihood of you not needing it is actually quite slim.

And just to clarify being able to cope without it, isn't the same as not needing it.

I get that but for instance if I can escort DS to where he has to be and not park in a spot closer someone else can use it. ( we might have to park up and pay parking to escort him but we can do that).

And if you have no sensory need but just trouble with communication eg pragmatic language or semantics / receptive that does not stop queueing. It’s the sensory issue that are the problem in this context

It's not only sensory issues that would cause problems with queuing though is it? Honestly I don't think I've ever met a parent of an ND kid who knew so little about the condition...bit you lack of knowledge is so severe, I literally can't even begin to help you understand-i wouldn't know where to start. It seems your knowledge starts and ends with how your child is affected, and you cannot grasp that no one else's nd child is like yours. If you can't get to that point, I don't know what to tell you.
But, I'm going to clear 1 thing up for you, as it seems to be really bigging you, and a LOT of other people.

They are NOT SKIPPING THE QUEUE-they are simply being able to wait their turn in a more comfortable environment. If there is a 2 hour wait for a ride, then 2 hours is how long they wait, they just do their waiting else where. In a more quiet area, in a restaurant, sitting by a river, walking around, doing some of their sensory diet, could be anything really, but what is is not is going from ride to ride to ride whilst all the poor non disabled kids stand miserable and suffering in a long line, which is what i think most people assume is the case.

I don't see why everyone has such an issue with it

DD's ability to queue hinges entirely on the type and layout of the queue, and the way it's managed.

There's no challenge for her in waiting (as there can be for some) as she has no intellectual impairment or processing issue that affects this - give her a seat, (and allow her to sit in it how she wants, which is a different fight sometimes), her music and something to read and she'll be perfectly happy all day long. Too, she can physically stand for longer than most as she's physically fit and healthy.

However, she cannot stand still. She just can't. Something in her nervous system and the way she processes the world just won't let her.

She stims to ease this by dancing. It's gotten 'better' and more subtle as she's gotten older but it remains the case that if she's stood in one place for more than a minute or so, she starts moving - foot to foot, between ballet positions, spinning, tiny hops and jumps, twists and contractions, flicks of her hands and arms.

If you don't know her, it wouldn't 'read' as 'stimming' necessarily, because she's a pretty highly trained dancer these days, and so her movements are coordinated and drilled to be 'graceful' but it is. It's compounded by the fact that she nearly always has headphones in with music playing if there are other people around as she uses that to cut off outside noise she finds painful - again, it won't be visible but she's incredibly sound sensitive. She prefers this and finds it more effective than other options but it also doesn't 'flag' there's a problem.

At 7 or 8, she looked like a fidgety kid and no-one questioned. At 14.5 - they do, because it's way out of age norm for a full sized kid (she's taller than I am) to start jigging about and not be able to stop. There's also far more risk of their not being enough space for her to do it without bumping into people or thing, or just not enough space at all.

So, an outdoor queue, well spaced out, not boxed in or switchback so there are people on all sides - she'll be fine, if getting some odd looks.

A tight queue, indoors, particularly if there's a lot of sensory input like artificial lights, echoey, sudden, loud or high-pitched noises, no room to move, people in all directions, people shouting instructions or talking to her or touching her.... no chance. She's got about 5 minutes tops and then we're in trouble.

They can choose to park close and pay more, or crucially they can park further away and walk, or they can use public transport- they have options.

Disabled people have vastly reduced or none existent options.

But if you have an operation for example that will take you over a year to to 18 months to recover from and walk normally or have energy back then you are not eligible for a blue badge as you need to be having the problem last 3 years to get one.

So these people cannot " choose" to walk etc

If you aren’t disabled you pay for a family day out, and can spend the day with your family.

If you are disabled you pay for the same family day out but can’t spend the day with your family because they aren’t allowed on the ride with you… so you queue with one companion in the accessible queue and the rest of the family queue separately in the main queue.

Then all the ignorant people bitch, moan and tut at you because they think you have something they don’t 🤦‍♀️

When we’ve gone to theme parks the queue pass has just permitted me, DH, disabled DC and his sibling. I have never witnessed one disabled child taking a party of uncles/aunts/cousins/grandparents through the fast queue.

If it did happen chances are they have paid separately for regular fast-track passes.