Are people just less tolerant of disability accessibility now ?

[Takemeback02]

I have been raising a disabled child 11 years now and the first 5 ish years I never really dealt with many issues regarding to the assistance she received or disability access.
the last 5 years has been a real struggle. Usually transport / theme parks etc

most recently 6 of us went on holiday abroad to a European destination, 2 disabled children who require a lot of extra care with very high medical needs and equipment. We always check the hotels first and we speak to before choosing one that works for us. We picked a hotel that offered reserved disabled Sun beds. We arrived and they offered us 6 ( same as whole party ) but we told them we only needed 3. We chose ones away from the kids sections and to the side of the main pool,
they were reserved everyday. They placed disabled badge stickers on the beds for the duration of our stay. I reckon there
was 3 days out of 10 where we didn’t have an issue with someone taking them. Most would move on once asked but have a little moan as they did it and a few who got obviously very upset.

one of the days was a nightmare, we were at the pool bar and physically saw a women tair off the disabled badge sticker and throw it on the ground. I put it back on before going to get the kids
changed and when I got back lady was on bed and had removed the sticker again and lobbed it on the floor.

I just feel the last few years there is an obvious difference in peopls
Tolerance for accessibility or has it always been this way ?

don’t get me wrong I know from the past actual accessibility had got far better but it just feels like it annoys people now.

I witnessed an incident on a bus a few months ago,that although well meaning , actually made me really cross. A woman was in a wheelchair in the wheelchair space, and there was a pushchair parked next to her. We pulled up at a bus stop and a woman with a baby in a pushchair wanted to get on. The driver told her there was no room. The woman in the wheelchair promptly called out 'Its OK,I'll get off,I'm only going a few more stops'. I know she was just being kind,but it's incidents like this that make the general public think that disabled people are of less importance.

I had horrible aggression from a car waiting for me to walk across a zebra crossing at Tesco too. I could only walk very slowly but it wouldn't have been obvious why

From the driver of the car I mean, it wasnt a sentient car sadly

I don't know, I have a electric wheelchair now and I was using it and had ample charge and could get home easily I would be quite happy to give it up to a mum with a pushchair . We never know what battles other people are facing. When I was a mum with a toddler in a pushchair I had an undiagnosed disability (not for want of trips to the GP), a toddler with severe allergies and eczema that meant being out of the house for long stretches was tricky and abusive husband. It wasn't exactly an easy breezy time. And I now volunteer for a charity supporting mums with disabilities, many of which are hidden. I am not saying all mums with a pram are disabled but I am saying this isn't a binary thing at all, there are lots of shades of grey.

@est1980 I was talking to a child who got him and his whole family disability fast passes at a theme park because he's dyslexic. This is what makes people feel less nice. Especially last time I went to a theme park and there's a disabled person who is deserving of the help but they are left to watch as the family enjoy their day using the disability ticket.

The one where you asked for the case law on prams on buses and I gave it to you. It probably got buried though so here you go again:
https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2015-0025-judgment.pdf
FirstGroup vs Paulley, Paulley won damages of 5.5k and the decision in law that it would have been a reasonable adjustment in terms of avoiding disability discrimination to require someone with a pram to wake her baby and fold the pram in order to vacate the wheelchair space, and if she didn't want to do that, to require her to get off the bus in order to vacate the space. You said that wasn't the law, it is, and here's the document to prove it.
Petty? Probably. But I wasn't making it up.

Wait, I found it. And sorry but you TOTALLY misunderstood this. This was a supreme court ruling on a particular case of alleged discrimination towards a disable person. In short, the bus company was found guilty, for not having the correct signage and policies in place. It clearly states that no on can be asked to move off the bus, and that if something or someone is occupying the disbled space, and there is no where else to reasonably move to, the space will be considered already occupied. It further goes on to state that the driver does not have any powers to make someone move, let alone get off the bus if they refuse

So no, this is not proof, this is not a law, this was a court hearing about 1 case of discrimination, which on this occasion, the person was awarded damages for discrimination because the BUS COMPANY had not fully complied with disability rights and anti discrimination laws. The mother, the sleeping baby and the buggy were not even part of the lawsuit, or relevant factors in the descision

As it stands, yes by law a wheelchair user does have priority over a wheelchair place. There is however, now law that requires a person to vacate the space, not does the sriver have any powers to force someone to move ot they don't want to. That is not my opinion, that is exactly what the situation is, whether you like it, or whether you agree it's fair is irrelevant.

like it or not-,These are the actual facts, see for yourself https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/buses-and-coaches-features-and-help-for-disabled-people/buses-and-coaches-features-and-help-for-disabled-people

Unless you think the government is wrong aswell, I think we can are least put the what is the actual law part of the debate to bed.

You don't get fast passes for being disabled. You get to use a virtual queuing system which means you still have to wait the same amount of time between each ride, you just don't have to physically be in the line for the whole time. You don't even get an access pass for a particular condition either, you get it if you have any reaaon that makes standing in line a significant barrier to accessing the rides-to say he had it for dyslexia is just not factually correct. He might have suffererd from severe vertigo bought on by standing up for long periods of time, as a symptom of his type of dyslexia for example? He might have actually had dyspraxia, but you misheard? It doesn't really matter, they are not just given out willy nilly and if he had one, it's likely he qualified for it. But it's a very dangerous game to start deciding who is more deserving than who. Especially when it's only based on your own, likely limited, knowledge of any given situation.

You weren't making up thr case, but that's about the only part you got right lol.

Awww, I preferred the sentient car imagery 😂

They might not have been capable of that one hour wait, had they already used up their special effort to do this on previous queues.

Part of the PIP criteria is to perform a task normally like everyone else, which means consistently, safely, regularly, and without paying for it later because your condition has deteriorated as a direct result of your effort.

Someone upthread mentioned a 'mild cardiac' queue-jumper. It's quite possible they can only safely sustain a limited amount of physical exertion and by queue jumping they can actually have a day out like a normal person enjoys, without it being detrimental or unsafe.

It's actually quite interesting reading the judgement because actually it is very finely balanced and there is considerable recognition within it that there may be other reasons /disabilities that necessitate use of the wheelchair space and that it wouldn't be appropriate to make the bus driver the arbiter of whether or not they did need it. I say this as a wheelchair user, that I feel far less disabled when I use my chair (and can comfortably sit and wait etc) than I did before I got it and was struggling with profound (but essentially invisible) weakness

Did you just compare autism and sensory processing disorders with normal child hood development, normal feelins of discomfort. Frustration, etc being uncomfortable and not liking certain things...Do you think the average child that is growing up and learning these things for example feels real physical pain if they have to do things they dont like? Does it cause them to self harm? Lead to panic attacks? Severe anxiety? And do they required awful anti psychotic medication cocktails to try and relieve these kinds of symptoms? And will they struggle foever or will they learn and cope better and better the older they get and become adults who do not struggle? Just want to be entirely clear on your point here?

Easy to spot the prople who both read and understood the ruling 😄 inthink you and i are the only ones tbh... it js actually very interesting, but goes to prove these things are based in facts of law, not morals, ethics or opinions. The only 'wrong doer' here-legally speaking, was the bus company, who didnt have quite the right signage and their policy wording was just off enough that it qualified as discrimanatory -it was basically a technicality. But social media cast the poor woman and her sleeping child as the villians. People have put so little effort into educating themselves, most screaming from the roof tops-,fold the buggy witch' dont realise the damn buggy in this particular case, didnt even fold 😭 thats where i realised, you cannot win a battle of wits with an unarmed person, or in the words of Forrest G, stoopid is as stoopid does🤣

I can walk mostly perfectly well. But I can't stand on moving public transport. How can you tell by looking at me?

Oh wait, people think they know what I can see by looking at me. They couldn't be more wrong

This is very saddening to hear.

My son is non verbal autistic with LD he is 5.5. I always assumed we had a challenging time because he "doesn't look disabled" - he uses a special needs pram as he would run in the road without it and has violent outbursts. I do find people state constantly and we have a lot of unsolicited advice offered about our parenting. I rarely take time to "normal places" ie not SEN days as we struggle so much.

I hope you enjoyed your holiday and this attitude doesn't continue 🙁

Where was there a suggestion of standing? ‘Other seats available’ means there was somewhere to sit.

Which tends to involve steps which I can't manage

I do find when talking to people who haven't used a bus in years that they don't actually believe you when you say that not all busses have luggage racks anymore. I've never understood the point in a sign telling people to fold buggies when they can't be safely stored anyway. It would make more sense to have a sign that says what should actually happen, that the buggy user will need to get off the bus for a wheelchair that needs the space.

Yes you can. If you meet the criteria.🙂

You can get Personal Independence Payment ( PIP ) if all of the following apply to you: you're 16 or over. you have a long-term physical or mental health condition or disability. you have difficulty doing certain everyday tasks or getting around.

https://www.gov.uk › pip › eligibil...
Personal Independence Payment (PIP): Eligibility - GOV.UK

And actually, having read the judgement, I don't think that's what the supreme court judges would have asked the bus company to ask people.

think the focus should be on
a) there being sufficient space for more than one pushchair/wheelchair user (maybe we could have a pushchair space too)
b) there being a sufficient bus frequency so that it was never a disaster to wait for the next one
c) bus shelters having proper seats not those silly tilting benches, so that people with disabilities can at least sit comfortably to wait for the bus

(I spent a lot of time as a young mum with a then undiagnosed but serious disability ferrying my son to hospital on the bus, we had a deadline to get there, huge bags with his medication and special foods, and I had very weak arms and legs (but didn't know why)

Oh please don’t mandate more bloody paper work to get through life. It’s already a pain in the arse with pip, dla, Bb… then this place wanting this evidence and that place only accepting the other. I just want to get on the bus or train without having to have yet another thing to prove I need accommodations!

When wheelchair spaces were first bought in, the rule was that any buggies and prams had to either be folded, or get off the bus, to accommodate the wheelchair user.🤷‍♀️

Plus anyone can buy themselves a wheelchair or a walking cane if they want to, so if I am being asked for ID I would expect anyone using the seats to be asked.

(In fact, I have a cane just for doing things like getting the tube, it doesn't particularly help my condition but it renders an invisible disability visible. But it's annoying I need to use it just to pander to informant assumptions about what disability looks like)