Are people just less tolerant of disability accessibility now ?

[Takemeback02]

I have been raising a disabled child 11 years now and the first 5 ish years I never really dealt with many issues regarding to the assistance she received or disability access.
the last 5 years has been a real struggle. Usually transport / theme parks etc

most recently 6 of us went on holiday abroad to a European destination, 2 disabled children who require a lot of extra care with very high medical needs and equipment. We always check the hotels first and we speak to before choosing one that works for us. We picked a hotel that offered reserved disabled Sun beds. We arrived and they offered us 6 ( same as whole party ) but we told them we only needed 3. We chose ones away from the kids sections and to the side of the main pool,
they were reserved everyday. They placed disabled badge stickers on the beds for the duration of our stay. I reckon there
was 3 days out of 10 where we didn’t have an issue with someone taking them. Most would move on once asked but have a little moan as they did it and a few who got obviously very upset.

one of the days was a nightmare, we were at the pool bar and physically saw a women tair off the disabled badge sticker and throw it on the ground. I put it back on before going to get the kids
changed and when I got back lady was on bed and had removed the sticker again and lobbed it on the floor.

I just feel the last few years there is an obvious difference in peopls
Tolerance for accessibility or has it always been this way ?

don’t get me wrong I know from the past actual accessibility had got far better but it just feels like it annoys people now.

Yes that’s the issue getting about the park. My son was also hyper sensory seeking - a combination of both - but the 5 minute ride was defeated by the wading through crowds, noise and smells that made it overall inaccessible.

But that’s your son. One individual and how things are for him.

Generalising doesn’t do anything to help anyone

100% this.

What I find really sad reading through a lot of this, is the need people feel to justify themselves to appease others and or try to avoid negative feedback etc. I'll pick out an example of this from your post. Your personal reasoning behind it may of course not be what im talking about at all, and im not saying it is. Btw, but it illustrates my point. when you say- you DS would not cope sharing a swimming lane- that should have been all you needed to say. But a lifetime of being judged made you add that he has a fear of touch, to explain why he needed his own lane. I just feel like this constant feeling of being entitled to know all the ins and outs is unacceptable-almost as if to say, "hmmm, can't do that eh, I'll be the judge of that" and the response or treatment you then get is literally based on whether you have proved you case or not. Maybe it's just me and you don't persobally feel that way at all, but yours as well as so many others just come across as constantly seeking to appease others. If a disabled person says they can't do something or need some kind of help, then that's that imo and you should be made to feel that you need to back it up.

I also feel that it's societies its not fair viewpoint towards accomodtions that and has made you say this:

"I think it incumbent on us to only use support when really needed and just manage when not"

The support is needed or it's not. There's no 'really need it, need ot a little bit, it would be helpful buy I can manage etc about it.
Obviously if you don't need it AT ALL, as in it's just as easy for you as everyone else then obviously accessing that support wouldnt be just, BUT if it's a case of, well it would make it a lot easier, but we can/could manage without, (which is what i think you were indicating-correct me if i'm wrong); but it will still be more difficult than it is for everyone else. Then by definition you do in fact need it, thr degree to which you need it is irrelevant and you have every right and should use it. (or in your case, your ds) without feelings of guilt or unfair privilege about it, simply because you know you could have muddle through albeit with difficulty, without it. This is not and should not be a factor when choosing to make use of or request the accomodations available to you. Nor should you be made to feel that way. Again, I feel that fear of judgement and jealousy from others has caused you to adopt this kind of thinking. And its wrong-im not saying you're wrong, btw I'm saying it's wrong attitudes of others has made you like this.

Of course, if it's a case of you purposefully trying to help your sons development, build resistance etc to promote independence, to get him used to certain things etc, and this is your reason for it, then that's totally different. If it's going to help in the long run, and eventually a particular activity or environment will become comfortable for him with exposure and practise then of course, go for it. But if it's something he'll never be able to adapt to, and will always be hard, and it will cause stress or other kind of harm to make him 'just cope with it' then there is no benefit to him and it's just 1 more struggle he has to endure when he didn't need to. People fought for these rights and accomodations so he didn't have to.

The idea of disability accomodations is pretty simple, it's to make sure, as far as reasonably practical , that disabled people's experience is no lesser, nor no more difficult than it would be if they didn't have the disability-not to help only if you absolutely can't do it at all. Which is, from what I can gather, a very popular opinion on adjustments.

Made clear by a comments such as this,somewhere upthread referring to a child with a q jump at a theme park as 'the a q jump as claimed they couldnt stand in line, but i saw them waiting in line for an hour when a ride broke down with 'no issue' now I'm not sure what this person required as evidence of the q being 'an issue' for the child, but it's abundantly clear that as far as she was concerned,she had not seen the child suffer sufficient trauma, so as to warrant him having such an accomodation made for him. And that due to not wanting to be recipient of this kind of judgement, you have adopted the behaviours above.

Again, I could be TOTALLY wrong -im not trying to project onto you or anything, but this is what I infer from multiple posts like yours. And it just makes me sad to think that after fighting so hard for disability rights, we are now scared to use them for fear of judgement and accusations of preferential treatment. 🤷🏽‍♀️

I really woukd like to see the literature that gave people this idea that ND kids don't like theme parks? Where are they getting this from? I really wanna know where this has been stated?

Your poor DH 😀. My DW loves rides and rollercoasters but she can’t go on because of her back (her discs like to jump around and stick to each other, or slip out completely etc)- so I get dragged on kicking and screaming while she minds my chair and watches with her best sad face. Bloody kids!

My very unscientific sample of people I know includes 3 young people with autism who have been to theme parks and loved them this summer. It would be my sons idea of hell (mine to!)

I appreciate that, but in the case of my DS he finds the relief of the ride is generally worth the struggle with the rest- but we know which places have good accessibility and don’t go to big busy parks like Alton towers etc.

We did Disney in Paris once and it was Not Good, so now we stick to local places. He only needs a few rides of the right sort and he will go on again and again- we know the places where they let us stay on the ride as long as there are enough empty seats for everyone in the queue to get on.

Ok here’s my confusion.

My son has needed to be fast tracked eg for school dinners because he could not bear to be touched. When things were really bad it was a packed lunch and a quiet room as otherwise he would not eat. He had to be fast tracked just to get into the eating area and for a while they had a quiet table for them all. When that got taken away we discovered the the was not eating etc

He needs to avoid queues or spend minimal times in queues as he is paranoid / has ocd tendencies as well as ASD and the sensation of touching is like an electric shock. In many places we can manage that but I find that in places like Alton Towers they are absolutely heaving. The queue is the least of the issue and the fear of being touched is for the entire park. The queue to get on the ride is the least of the issues - I’m more worried about finding a quiet spot to get away from people. I can cope with that in airports as o know that eventually we will get somewhere hopefully serene and peaceful so fast track is a means to get to that peaceful place.

In contrast no matter how much my son really loves History( he has a place to study a degree in it ) the fast track into the Tower of London served no purpose and we had to emergency exit with a beefeater from the White Tower. In fact the whole of London caused a mini breakdown. The sheer number of people who could touch him freaked him out
.

If the ND ASD person can cope with being in a throng of people just walking along the crowded entrances - what stops them queueing? I mean the entrances / exits and throughfares are all bad and the fast track adds nothing to that except they spend less time waiting but then they are back on a heaving crowd. I don’t dispute that they may love the ride but how can they cope with the crowds all over but not the queue?

It amazes me when ND parents are the sometimes the ones making it worse! My kid asd and and they dont neef this...its not helpful!!!
Neurodiversity encompasses many many conditions. Adhd and autism-with relation to theme park q jumps it seems to be autism that's under attack. So as that's what everyone wants well start there. Everyone seems to assume that autism means you can't cope with bright lights busy environments loud noises etc, so how would a q jump help an autistic person who clearly wouldn't be able to enjoy a theme park anyway.

I'll tell you how, because firstly, autism is a communication disorder and does not in fact cause any of those issues. A sensory Processing disorder causes those issues, which does commonly occur with autism, but not always, and can even occur alone, ie with no autism, or with other nd conditions such as adhd, dyslexia, dyspraxia, odd, ocd, pda etc etc. It is not a neurodiversity condition in its own right.
So first things first, leave the autistics alone. You are talking about people with a sensory Processing disorder.

Now as I'm sure everyone knows we have senses. A person with spd could have issues with 1, 2, 3, 4 or all 5 senses.
The issue can be that they are over sensitive to stimulation of these senses or under, or it could be both.
Some one with tactile issues, ie touch could hate being touched, could perceive gentle touch as pain or could deliberately self harm due to being so under sensitive to touch that the seek deep pressure and even pain to relieve to symptoms. They could experience both. I won't go into all the senses because that will be long and pointless. I've chosen touch for a reason.

So, here's the scenario.
Jack is autistic, has adhd and a sensory Processing disorder, his favourite thing in the world is roller coasters. His main sense affected by his SPD is touch. He can be both under and over stimulated by it.

Jack, mum, dad a older sister go for a family trip to Thorpe Park. They are granted a ride access pass as standing in line would be very difficult for Jack-ill explain why in a moment-
A RAP is a virtual queuing system, not a q jump, you are allowed 3 people with you. This is how it works. The line for Nemesis is 2 hours. It is 10am. You take your pass to the front of the line, or join the fast track line, and when you get on a worker to signs your pass. They will note the time and the current main line ride q time. Which is 2 hours. He writes on your sheet 'next ride time 12pm.
Jack gets to go on the ride with minimal trauma because he has not had to stand in a crowded line being push, shoved, bumped into, not being able to extend him limbs fully to stretch etc, he is relatively relaxed and enjoys his ridem. He has to wait until 12pm before he can go on an other ride, because thats how long he would have had to wait just like everyone else in the 2 hours he.will have only been on nemesis, the same as the person he would have be next to in the line. Now. Had he been made stand in the q and suffer through the above examples he would have been stressed, over stimulated, anxious, possible in pain. He may have started hitting himself in the head to try and regulate his out of control sensory input. Hev may have started hitting other people due to lack of impulse control caused by his adhd, he may have started shouting and screaming because he was struggling badly and his autism means he doesnt always know what's appropriate in social situations, He usually could lie on the floor with a weighted blanket at home and this would have helped greatly, but he cant do that here jumping up and down and spinning is also something that works for him, but he cant to that here either. So he is now overwhelmed, over stimulated, and about to go into crisis (also known as a meltdown-not to be confused with a tantrum) because he is unable to use any of his usual coping strategies and cannot self regulate. he does not end up on the ride as he has to be removed from the line. He may have become so disregulated they can't even remain in the park and have to go home.

Optional response, Jack 'manage' on the 2 hour line, '
i saw him wait for 2 hours with no issue '
and on the outside looks just fine, they are able to ride but Jack's enjoyment is limited due to the effects of the 2 hour line. The meltdown doesn't happen in the park, it happens at home and lasts. From 7pm til 4am, he eventually exhausts himself and falls asleep on the living room floor. Mum just puts a blanket over him -shes terrified of waking him if she moves him- and she grabs a couple of hours on the sofa next to him
With the RAP being given as an accomadation, Jack appears like every other lad his age, and people in the q are wondering why this kid who didn't seem to have any issues gets to q jump. Its really not fair, their kids dont like queuing either. Mum hears this and is very upset, Dad hears this and is very angry, older very protective siblings hears this and tells the person exactly what they can do with their opinion-Mum does a half arsed job of telling her she shouldn't do that but is secretly very proud of her.

Even with the q jump accomodation,the family's day has already been sullied, but they try to enjoy the rest of the day. For the next 2 hours they wander around the park, spend some time at 'the beach' and spend a little time in the 'quiet space' thorpe park so thoughtfully provide. They have brought some sensory aids with them, and make them available for Jack, should he choose or feel the need to use them.
2 hours has now passed and we move on to stealth, again presenting the rap, the ride wait here is 1 hour. So the next ride time is 1pm. Stealth last about 20 seconds. They ride stealth Jack is having a great day. It's nice to see him happy, he doesn't get out much, never gets invited to parties or play dates, due to Jack's care needs and parents work schedules, this is a rare and precious moment of family time too. Mum again notices people's distain as yet another kids with 'no real issues' gets to 'jump the q'
Theyvec probably been on 5 rides already were been here 3 hourd and only on our secon. She takes a deep breathe and ignores it, she should be used to it by now. They spend the next hour having some lunch. I'm sure you get the picture by now, so I won't finish the rest of 'Jack's day'

I can guarantee you a could find 100 autistic kids who get a RAP, and not a single part of those kids day will be anything alike-apart from the ignorance they have to endure,

Maybe adding queuing in is the thing which tips them over the edge into not being able to enjoy it? It adds a whole new level of sensory overload.

again just because your son reacts one way doesn’t mean everyone else will.

But everyone has to pay for parking I guess. This is probably why people have issues. Adaptations are meant to put disabled people on an equal footing - hence the spaces that can be used with blue badge. But getting then free when others have to pay is giving an advantage

Hmm I disagree. For instance most of my colleagues park 10 mins walk out of the town centre and pay £3 a day to park. When I have to go into the office I need to park as near to it as possible, which would cost £15/day without a blue badge.

Non disabled people can also choose public transport or cycling, options many disabled people don't have

The perfect answer lol

But does the car park at £15 still charge the same for everyone? So if colleagues chose to park in it they'd also be ripped off? ( Sounds very expensive btw) They may need to carry heavy stuff or find it difficult to do the walk but not have a blue badge.

What about if there is one car park in town like where I live? Blue badge holders are free and everyone else pays. ? Why?

The main reason is so disabled drivers dontvhave to trek around the car park to find a meter to pay for the parking...but also maybe its because you have not had to spend 25k adapting your car because you have no disability, so you can drive a car as it comes because you don't have to be able to fit a wheel chair where the front seat should be. And install brakes and accelerators on the steering wheels, That some have thought it's not unreasonable to try and make the cost of driving more equal for disabled drivers and free parking is one of ways they have decided to implement this. Maybe once a non disabled driver has spent 25k on parking, they can get a little badge that let's them park for free too....and TONS of places still charge for blue badge parking INCLUDING hospitals

Surely not having a disability is an advantage? But Yes, you are right, the advantages of having an chronic illness or disability are endless...I was so very grateful when I got my diagnosis, the first thing I thought of was all the free parking I would get. 🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️

Colleagues can choose. Someone with a blue badge who needs to park closer can't choose.
For your town, one reason (as well as those mentioned by other posters) might be that someone with a blue badge might need to take a lot longer than average. For example, walking very slowly and needing to rest frequently, so they'd have to pay for twice as long to do the same task.

Also as has been shown on this thread using public transport can be a nightmare for people with disabilities so they have no choice but to drive

Tolerance is down but I’d also say with awareness (not necessarily acceptance) being up it means to a lot of people it feels like almost everyone has some form of disability. Rightly or wrongly to a lot of people that will become a drag. I can’t say it’s not frustrating when you have a family of 15 with 3 generations that all get to skip a queue because 1 person has a disability…eg airport security, in that instance would it be fairer for the majority of the family to remain in the queue? I don’t know the answer and I’m not saying that suggestion is right but in some situations I can absolutely understand a lack of tolerance.

But there are many people who walk slowly and take longer to do stuff. And have to return more frequently. I was one them them myself with effects of cancer treatment) operation. And we have a hell of a lot of elderly people.

I'm not sure but I've heard of people receiving blue badges for non physical disabilities also.

It's downright scummy to park in a disabled space when you don't need them but i feel it doesn't necessarily need to be free. Isn't that what disability benefits are meant to be for? To cover the extra costs?

It's a bit of a minefield it seems

Not everyone with a blue badge gets disability benefits

And not everyone without a blue badge is physically able either. Swings and roundabouts

Private transport can be shit. I've twice driven friends to attractions and had to drive back because of zero parking. When it's a 50 mile round trip you pretty much give up and learn your place.