Are people just less tolerant of disability accessibility now ?

[Takemeback02]

I have been raising a disabled child 11 years now and the first 5 ish years I never really dealt with many issues regarding to the assistance she received or disability access.
the last 5 years has been a real struggle. Usually transport / theme parks etc

most recently 6 of us went on holiday abroad to a European destination, 2 disabled children who require a lot of extra care with very high medical needs and equipment. We always check the hotels first and we speak to before choosing one that works for us. We picked a hotel that offered reserved disabled Sun beds. We arrived and they offered us 6 ( same as whole party ) but we told them we only needed 3. We chose ones away from the kids sections and to the side of the main pool,
they were reserved everyday. They placed disabled badge stickers on the beds for the duration of our stay. I reckon there
was 3 days out of 10 where we didn’t have an issue with someone taking them. Most would move on once asked but have a little moan as they did it and a few who got obviously very upset.

one of the days was a nightmare, we were at the pool bar and physically saw a women tair off the disabled badge sticker and throw it on the ground. I put it back on before going to get the kids
changed and when I got back lady was on bed and had removed the sticker again and lobbed it on the floor.

I just feel the last few years there is an obvious difference in peopls
Tolerance for accessibility or has it always been this way ?

don’t get me wrong I know from the past actual accessibility had got far better but it just feels like it annoys people now.

I found it interesting that when I was allowed to "queue jump" because I have difficulty standing for any length of time I could hear the grumbling of other people as I was escorted past. The reality was that I was going past to collect a hired mobility scooter and then wait for my family who queued normally. But all they saw was someone "who looked healthy" jumping the queue

Yet when I went to another attraction a week or so later in my electric wheelchair noone seemed to mind me queue jumping at all (I was escorted past because they only had one wheelchair height desk) even though in that case my family came too.

The reality was in a wheelchair I was far more able to queue than probably many of the people in the queue. Without a mobility aid I really can't stand for any length of time at all without getting very ill. There's a real stigma and ignorance attached to invisible disability. Maybe because some people exploit it but I would say it's more because psychologically people like tangible "evidence"

I was literally about to say exactly this. Unfortunately there is no way of knowing whether a person has mobility needs or not just by looking at them. And its a dangerous route to start questioning a person's 'rights' to use these seats. Of course, this does leave the system open to abuse, but unfortunately, that's just something that's unavoidable. Personally I'm sick of the bombastic side eyes I get day in and day for parking in disabled bays or sitting in accessible seats, being walked past long queues of people to the very front of the line etc and hearing all the under the bteath comments and grumbles. I need the accomodations I am given. That doesn't change because I don't fit people's preconceptions of what a disabled person should 'look like' All we can do in this particular scenario, is trust that the vast majority of people are honest and fair. Even with my mobility issues, if I was using an accessible seat, and someone got on the bus who appeared to need the seat more than me, I would still offer them the seat-only it wouldn't look like a disabled person giving was to another disabled person because their need seemed greater, it would just look like I was an arse who shouldn't have been sitting there in the first place and would attract negative attitudes ...but that's a whole different kettle of fish🫠

I would absolutely expect a pushchair user to leave the wheelchair space for my son and I would remain on the bus until they moved or got off as I used to when we used a pushchair... it's a space dedicated to wheelchair users, it's a protected space.

All of this. It's so frustrating. The only thing I woukd say is that the assumption that invisible disabilities are used to exploit the system, is simply not true, or to a far far lesser degree than people assume. You have to jump through hoops to get things that prove you are disabled, so much evidence and assessments that the liklihood of someone managing to obtain it when there's nothing wrong with them is so very unlikely. You were spot on with you last sentence, absolutely nailed it

You would have to be mindful though that the pushchair user could also have a disability. It's not a simple binary

You took the words out of my mouth.

Yes, the space is protected, not the entire bus. They have to move out the space-if there is nowhere for them to move to however,they do not have to vacate the entire bus.

Is anyone seeing Will from the Inbetweeners here? 😀

This may sound callous, but isn't meant that way. Do the sunbeds you reserved have any adaptation on them or are they just regular sunbeds. Also can anyone reserve a sunbed? If not, then you are getting favourable treatement and as such I can understand to a degree other peoples frustration. Especially for childless people who will also choose away from the kid area next to the pool.

I'd like to extend my heartfelt sympathy for the posters on here who are so resentful of all of the 'special treatment' all us disabled people get. However, look on the bright side, if you're really lucky one day you or a loved one may have an accident or contract a serious illness which will leave you with a life-long life-limiting disability. Then you too will be able to experience the five-star VIP treatment we disabled people have come to enjoy. You too can experience the thrill of having people make the bare minimum effort to allow you to access services and facilities that able-bodied people can access without a thought while unpleasant and resentful expletive deleteds look on and tut about all the special treatment you're getting. That's if the most minimal accommodations are made in the first place, which they very often aren't.
Navigating a mostly inaccessible world where people often resent the very minor accommodations which transport and public services might begrudgingly see fit to make for us is so much fun, I do hope some of the able-bodied posters on here get to experience it for themselves one day!

Yes, technically you have to vacate the space. But if you can't vacate the space and stay on the bus, because you can't fold the pram, then you have to get off in order to vacate the space. It says on the stickers that wheelchair users have priority by law.
I'm not some monster. I don't want to make parents and children get off buses, and as it happens it's never yet come to that. I'll even hold the baby if necessary while the pram is folded (which again, I haven't had to do). But the fact remains that it's the law, and if it comes to it I will insist on my rights. Especially if it's in the winter because half an hour longer at the bus stop in the cold could have an impact on my condition such that I can't move the next day. And no I'm not allowed to drive, before someone tries to tell me that if it's that bad I should just not take the bus.
As you asked for the law, here's the supreme court ruling https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2015-0025-judgment.pdf FirstGroup vs Paulley. Paulley won damages to confirm that it would have been a reasonable adjustment for a woman with a pram to have been required to wake her child, fold down the pram, and move it out of the wheelchair space. Further, if that had really not been possible, or more likely, if she simply preferred not to wake the child, it would have been reasonable to require her to leave the bus.
I quite liked the phrase in para 117 "Here the context is the elimination of discrimination against disabled people. That will require, in appropriate circumstances, able-bodied people to accept restrictions that they may find irksome or inconvenient."
The whole thing is worth a read for an interesting discussion of how reasonable adjustments are decided and enforced and balanced against the needs of other protected groups.

I hadn't thought about being liked or disliked by someone I've never met, don't worry

Yes they might be disabled and need a priority seat, but unless they use a wheelchair they don’t need the wheelchair space.

They may be adapted sun beds,

they may be in a position which is safer for disabled people to access,

they may be reservable because some disabled people are unable to get down to the pool by 7 to get a sun bed,

they may be reservable because some disabled people are unable to get down and lie/sit on a towel on the floor

they may be closer to other facilities (eg, the accessible loo)

they may be placed such that wheelchair users can navigate between them

I could go on…

People really really will be happier not being able to reserve a sun bed than with a sun bed and my disability.

I mean , for instance, that my disability prevented me from folding down pushchairs and lifting them onto the storage spaces. If someone was willing to help me at both ends of my journey I could, but you don't always get willing volunteers

Quite. I don't go to those kind of pools but I wouldn't be able to walk round and round looking for an available.

I would rather be fit and healthy and battling it out with everyone else for a bed

That’s an awkward situation. I would have thought the driver would lift the pram for you? Surely that’s less hassle for them than forcing you off the bus?

It isn’t an issue on our local service because we don’t have the storage platform with the railings thingy anymore.

If I was the wheelchair user in question I’d be calling up the bus for someone to come and help so we could both get sorted!

Me too! I'd ask fellow passengers and the driver to assist someone in this situation.
If this was the case I'd do my level best to make sure that both of us were able to use the bus. It's usually possible with a bit of jiggling and cooperation anyway. I'd also offer to hold the child though I realise not everyone is comfortable with that (both ways). I've found interacting with other disabled people in public we usually have enough resourcefulness between us to make it work. If we really couldn't both fit, in reality I'd cede to you if your disability also means you can't stand and wait for longer at the bus stop and you were there first. Although if I was on my way to a medical appointment or work and it was the second bus I couldn't get on (always allow two buses if you're a wheelchair user!), I'd be a bit stuck because wheelchair taxis aren't easy to come by last minute.

Also to note that this exception when it comes to helping other disabled people does not mean that all wheelchair users should cede to people with prams just in case there's an invisible disability that they don't want to declare. Whilst I don't think in general disabled people should be made to disclose their conditions in public, my access needs are obvious and if I'm going to give them up I need to know that the other person also has access needs.

This and many other stories have disgusted me.

I am sorry to everyone this has happened to. What the hell is wrong with people???

Yep- I’m always happy to be helpful- and I’m actually pretty good at lifting so possibly could do the pram thing myself.

Also, if someone explained the situation and I could give up the wheelchair space (had time/energy/no kids with me etc then I’m not averse to it- I wouldn’t insist on the space for the sake of it…

but I won’t give it up to someone who can’t be arsed to fold their pram/doesn’t know how to fold it/chose a non folding carriage pram/doesn’t fancy holding their baby etc.

Of course they may not have any adaptation. Without knowing the full set-up and basing it purely on what is in the OP. I read it as somebody who is asking for preferential treatment based on want rather than need. I'm willing to bet if those sunbeds were in a less desirable position & further back from the pool nearer the building, they wouldn't be taken by others. That would be my suggestion to the hotel operator.

She also describes being at the bar and watching her unused sunbeds being claimed. I'm willing to bet most of us have been in that position. Sitting silently seething as we sit on a plastic chair or lay on a towel while somebdy has claimed beds that they aren't using.

The party in the OP post sound like they have able bodied among them (4 able bodied adults/children 2 children with disabilities) to do the sunbed dash, which in itself is hilarious to watch and often done by people who only then appear after lunch.

How many of those other holidaymakers would be unable to lie down on a towel. I couldn't due to knee issues.

Obviously cannot speak in this instance any more than you can, but the likelihood is that toilets and other facilities will be less likely to be next to the pool. Likewise access to those beds are more likely than not to be more difficult than beds set further back as example.

I’m very aware of hidden disabilities, but when someone is striding along then jumps into an accessible seat, I wonder why?

Elderly people, and those anyone else with mobility issues will have bus passes. Perhaps there should be some awareness raising so that those seats should be for people holding those passes? As we age, it’s fairly likely our mobility and our balance will be affected.

You are clearly not aware of hidden disabilities at all. In your opinion, from the few seconds of the parsons life. You have deduced they have no mobility issues. Well, if you have a talent like that, you could save the NHS billions in test and scans, just pop into you local hospital, have a quick look at everyone and you can let the docs know if there is "really anything wrong with them"

This is going to be a game changer for waiting lists-Sir Keir will obviously take the credit, but we here will all know the truth of the superhuman feats you performed for the good of society!

My issue doesn't affect my gait though? I walk normally, I just get more unwell with every step I take, have not brilliant balance and if I stand for any time at all rapidly lose the ability to see /speak/swallow. Other people have things like POTs that make standing up dangerous.

I honestly think there just needs to be more awareness training about invisible disability and all the different ways it can manifest.

People need to stop thinking they can "see" how disabled someone is. My mum is 70 and still skis, runs, cycles, works part time (because she enjoys it). My grandmother skiied till she was 80 and gardened long past that. They both need/needed a chair far less than I do. I have to have a lie down after a two minute shower.

Also I have severe mobility issues, I'm sure I would look fine to you, and to top it all off, I don't have a bus pass. I guess I'm royally well you get my point

Exactly.

who needs MRIs and CT scans and blood tests etc when you can just "tell" from looking at someone how ill they are.