To think that my child daughter can have equally awesome childhood as I did?

[NotAlexa]

Long post, but hopefully can give a sufficient preamble to show where my concerns about modern generation and safety stem from.

When I was 2-3 (from words of my entire family), I could not comprehend why children were crying next to a wagon with sweets. I understand now that it is because i didn't know what sweets were until the age of 7, where i was introduced to Kinder Surprise. Before, I had carrot and apple for sweet tooth.

When I was 6, I actively resorted not making friends with any kid that cried. Errr, so embarrassing being seen with a loud trouble maker. From that age until about 12, I exclusively preferred playing rough, climbing trees, and running wild. A few scars on the leg are a great reminder of fun i had outdoors, while my neighbours helped stitch me up until my mother returned home from a bit of shopping.

When I was 7, I would l go to school alone, crossing 2 unregulated roads with no traffic lights. because apparently i made a huge fuss when my mum was dropping me off, and told her off for not trusting me. Needless to say, I was a formidable kid!

When I was 10, in summer me and my friend (then 12) would get a bus across the city to get on a ferry to then go up and down the hill to reach UNESCO beach (Curonian Spit if interesting to anyone). All alone. No supervision. We would prepare ourselves sandwiches and all sort of junk food and fruit and spend entire day sunbathing and swimming in the sea. We did that until 16. Every summer. We were never stopped doing something because we were too young. And never have we been asked where were our parents. Although some doggy alcoholics did approach us once or twice, we just gave them cold shoulder and the looks of disgust.

Nowadays, I barely ever see kids roaming the streets. I live in a quiet town in SW England, with low crime rate and it baffles me as to why kids are always always being supervised. They are only playing in playgrounds, being told off for making mess, being obliged to when they are asking for sugar and having tantrums!

I worked in the University Gym when I was a student, and i remember many many parents coming with their adult children (freshers at Uni) to buy a membership for them. The so called adults would hover behind their parents shoulders and let the parent speak. It was soooo odd! I mean, they are going to the gym, not parents; they are responsible for their own health and wellbeing, it will be their signature on the admissions form.

I am 30 years old, pregnant with my first child, and am very worried about this 'coddling' society. Is it just a phase in the society do you think? Or are we indeed keeping children on leashes so tight that they do not learn independent thinking and risk assessment?

What age did you enrol them into Scouts

Squirrels is the youngest section staring at age 4. Then you have Beavers at 6, Cubs at 8, Scouts at 10.5 and Explorers at 14

The younger sections usually have long waiting lists somcontact your local group 18 months to 2 years before you want a place.

Youre 30? I thought you were describing a childhood in the 50s or something.

Oh I can assure you kids running into busy roads is not a new or recent thing!

I guess you're too young to remember the Tufty Club or the terrifying public information films of the 70s and 80s.

You grew up in a completely different time and place, and presumably according to the norms of the society you lived in. If you try to make your child adhere to those norms in another situation, you may find it doesn't work the same way.

Also it may be a language issue but you sound a little overconfident that you got through your childhood unscathed because of your own formidable character. The truth is you were lucky, and things could have gone very differently for you on any number of occasions. Which is true of any childhood in my opinion, but when you are preening yourself for your rightness and excellence it might be worth remembering that a different group of dodgy drunk men might not have backed off when 12 year old you gave them a look of disgust.

OP people are being unnecessarily harsh with you after your first post as you write great English but I suspect it's not your first language and your idioms / way of talking are consistent with the way I think you'd express yourself in your mother tongue.
To this day, people in many European countries give their children far more freedom and for instance, from 6 or 7 children stay home alone after school until parents return from work. In locations where many live on blocks of flats, often overlooking children's play areas, there's more of a collective "looking out for each other" feel.

The UK is one of the most individualistic countries in the world. It's also the most obsessed with a box-ticking approach to safeguarding, at the expense of common sense. Plus, we're very prone to litigation.
I'd say you're in the wrong country. I have a colleague who refuses to let his 12 year old alone for even an hour.

We do also have too many cars here and navigating the roads on foot is dangerous even for adults. It's becoming silly.

I think the OP grew up in another country. It's normal for people in different places to experience a childhood which seems like a different time in another place.

My two teens have been brought up on the continent and they used to go swimming and fishing in rivers by themselves with their friends while at primary school. If it had been in non rural England people would have called it neglectful.

@NotAlexa
You have to develop a thick skin if you want to bring your children up with elements of your childhood in 2024 UK.

I grew up in the UK and then brought my kids up on the continent. It's always difficult to bring up children in a context of which you are unfamiliar.
I remember my kids at a 7 year olds birthday party in a field next to a river and forest. The children just ran off for the afternoon to swim in the river, and the parents called them in for cake, 5 minutes, and then they disappeared again for the afternoon. This was perfectly normal.

OP do you know the After Babel substack? It talks a lot about what has happened to childhood and how that has affected children. I think you'd find it interesting.

www.afterbabel.com/p/treating-childhood-anxiety

OP it can depend a lot on where you live and what the particular set up is on your road/immediate area by your house and what the neighbours attitude is to it with their own children.

My children enjoy a lot of freedom as do others living close to us (ages 6 -10, all have been doing jt since about 5-6 years old). They play out with other children and they feel like they are free roaming (in reality they don’t actually go that far) and loosely supervised where they don’t necessarily think they are being supervised at all, we collectively keep track of them from a distance but I’m not afraid to admit that at times we don’t know exactly where they are - I am very happy they have this as it was how I was a child too, but go to other areas in the same town/villages and it’s not happening all over. Happens a lot in some areas and not at all in others, seems just pockets of it.

The kids here with this freedom are all thriving - they are also all very much middle class and have privilege in other ways too

Sorry, OP, I’m glad you had happy childhood memories, but I think you’re being very naive.

In order to give your daughter the childhood you had you'll need to recreate the circumstances. You'll need to find a location as similar as possible, similar levels of traffic, similar expectations, similar culture.

I grew up in 1970's Wiltshire in a small town, my children grew up in 2000's West London, very, very different times & places, just one example being the level of traffic. Of course it was much easier for me at 5 to find a safe place to cross a road than my children.

I feel a bit sorry for your baby, having such high expectations set for him/ her before birth! I don't doubt that nurture plays a fundamental role in how children develop, but nature is equally formidable. What will you do if your child is actually very sensitive, in need of extra patience and reassurance, a bit... emotional... by nature? Will you let them cry it out, tell them to pull themselves together, become frustrated/ irritated that they seek your support and guidance too much? Forcibly enrol them in martial arts and competitive pastimes to toughen them up? Compassion is an underrated quality. I hope you have more now, as an adult, than you evidently had as a child avoiding all those cry babies.

I had a fair amount of freedom growing up. I knew the boundaries, but was independent. My parents wanted to know where I was going, who I was going with and what time I'd be home. I was never allowed to aimlessly 'roam' the streets in large groups, and needed to be home by dark. They expected me to be true to my word. That was it. There were no mobile phones and I lived in a city. I played out till dusk, but never too far away. I had an active childhood of sports and cycling and running around, and my neighbourhood was safe and relatively wealthy. But I didn't kid myself that everyone had this. Some of the estates in my city were notorious for being rough, kids were recruited for drug running, men were frequently violent and abusive as a result of alcohol or drugs. Still are, more so in fact. In these circumstances, I completely understand why many parents, who perhaps aren't as privileged, are so protective.

Ds wanted to go fishing a couple of weekends ago. I'd told him I didn't want him going to the river in the city alone, I wanted him to be with a friend, and I wanted me/ dh to be close by, within a few minutes walk (but not suffocating him with our presence). He argued with me, saying "I'll be fine, I'm 13!" But the rules stayed in place. Just as we neared the spot where he wanted us to leave him fishing with his friend, we met a jogger who advised us not to continue down the (busy) path. There was a man masturbating in full view of all the passers by using the path. I used it as an example to ds as to why we established the rules we did.

What I'm saying is that times and locations differ. I agree it's unhealthy to helicopter your kids non stop. But it's equally unhealthy to afford them too much freedom. Most people endeavour to strike a balance. I'm sure you will, too.

I think times have changed (not saying either era were necessarily better) and it does depend where you lived. I was rural and had my own moped by age 9, and an air rifle. Used to disappear off for the entire day with my same aged cousin (or alone) and dog doing target practice and exploring the countryside, including multiple WW2 bunkers full of rubbish and the occasional dead cow in the area around our farm. No mobile phone or anything. I can't imagine that happening today.

Honestly I'm not sure if my childhood was neglectful but it was pretty happy!

I agree your parents sound completely neglectful. I have dc in Yr 7 (first year secondary school) their friends often come here after school as their parents aren't at their homes. They love to come here and I often have two or three to feed, and they love telling me their problems etc. We play Uno or on the Switch or they play outside doing something. I've had a few tell me that they love coming here because its their safe place and its fun.
Your children are only young once, molycoddle them a bit. It won't hurt them.

@Whatafustercluck bloody hell, imagine if that nice guy hadn't told you about the wanker. Some people are too fucking disgusting. It's just so shit that kids can't just go out and have fun without there being some creepy fucker hanging around. You could just despair sometimes 😒

This is the parenting equivalent of a "cool wife" and there is a similar post on here every week or so. Well done, OP, you are so clearly a better parent than those of us who don't let our small kids go hiking on their own!

Quite - I mean look what happened to Topsy and Tim, they had to be rescued by a mountain dog. Even the 60s version of their parents were furious.

I was forced to take part in a school concert when I was about that age even though I was so shy (and undiagnosed autistic ) that I was genuinely terrified. I froze up and couldn’t move, literally totally stuck, with everyone looking. my parents then spent the whole evening telling me how awful I was and that everyone thought I was so badly behaved. It’s still one of my most traumatic memories even though I’ve had some awful shit happen in my life. Forcing scared children to take part in nonsense concerts is bad parenting, and how ridiculous to suggest that if we don’t force them then our society will be dysfunctional.

We met a Doggy Alcoholic the other week.

@oaoakleaffy Thanks for clarifying - exactly what I was hoping for 😆

Fairly typical of its time and honestly I don't feel that I was neglected. My mum walked me to my new school in London on the first day - first yr Juniors. Next day, was sent by myself, we had to cross a major road but there was a crossing and a policeman. We played on the local commons and parks unsupervised (5 mins from home) and from about 10 we took buses all over London, such as to the zoo or the V and A. We went to the local pool and skating rink unaccompanied.
Normal.

I used to wander freely for many miles, here and abroad as a child- Only once did a man make my senses give me ''warning signs''.... I was en route to explore a dilapidated farm on my own in France, and a German man was sitting on. the side of the road saying ''Hello'' in English.

I wonder if he had followed me- my instincts said ''Do not enter that farm''.... {There were so many abandoned buildings back then}...
I ran like the clappers back to the camp site.
I did go back for an explore later, but felt very creeped out.

Another farm I explored with a French girl was so worm eaten our feet fell through the upper floor

I loved exploring - in one tumbledown derelict place I found an interesting old horse's bit, red with rust.
Still got it, years later! {Pic from when I showed a friend}
It's a Segundo, made by Latchford around 1871

Loved the freedom I had- the old abandoned WW1/2 army camp by Ogbourne St George was good for exploring- albeit creepy- and the old London Docks.

0P, it sounds as if you are going to feel disappointed in your child if she ever cries when she's unhappy, isn't crossing roads on her own as soon as she can walk and isn't going off to the beach on her own and fending off drunks by the time she's 10. Whether or not these things are right or wrong, you will be putting pressure on her to conform to your idealised vision of her. She might not want to do any of those things. She might want to be a quiet, stay at home kind of child. Broaden your mindset and wait and see what she's like when she's actually here. She can still be resilient, independent and happy without being a clone of you. Deciding for her that she is going to join the Scouts (4 plus years away) and the Duke of Edinburgh scheme (teenage years) certainly isn't going to help her be a free spirit. Do her the kindness of getting to know and understand her.

Ah yes. Wealth. That helps immensely.