To wonder why it's so controversial to talk about white behaviour throughout history?

[BeachParty]

It's an interesting discussion to have, and makes you think.
Why do so many immediately go into "how dare you!" mode or "why are you being racist towards white people?!"
Instead of actually listening to what people are saying? History is whitewashed in this country, we usually learn it from a "hero" viewpoint.

I do think an interesting discussion can be had about how history is recorded, but it is not reasonable to frame it solely in terms of race.

whenever conflict occurs, cultural change will follow. The resulting dominant culture views the conflict through its own lens and writes its own version of that history. It’s absolutely natural. Especially since the recording and preservation of information was difficult.

we now exist in a world where recording information and transmitting it to subsequent generations is easier. That means for the first time we have the opportunity for multiple interpretations to be saved.

There will still be an element of interpretation of the victors, because the culture that truly loses does not remain to tell their story. Those stragglers are still integrated into the new culture.

When I said whataboutery I was referring to posts going "what about this or that conflict, look what black people do...." etc
I wasn't referring to white behaviour so not sure why you're saying I am.

I think that the OP's question lacks some nuance.

I do agree that there is a defensiveness over colonisation etc.

But I also think that it is odd to frame "white behaviour" as exceptional - it is what humans with power do to consolidate power and resources and have done throughout society. This doesn't make it "understandable" or make the behaviour acceptable, nor does it mean that the injustices and prejudices that still result from that behaviour should be ignored BUT it is worth being careful. The average white person isn't just biding their time in order to further oppress black people and some of the CRT material out there does suggest this - I can't see how this is good for people of any race to believe that oppression or being oppressed is inherent in skin colour.

No one is up in arms that I've seen? I think education on equality and how to see stereotyping and the damage it does is far better, than being "up in arms"

So why don't you define 'white behaviour' so people can engage with the discussion?

OP it is the title of your post. @Butchyrestingface is making a fair challenge to what you put to everyone else to answer.

Aaahhh, but these other races, all of them, were totally peaceful and fraternal until white people came along and taught them how to be beastly to one another.

I think that is where the modern historical narrative is being pushed...

Your thread is named as being about "white behaviour" not being allowed to be discussed without it depending into a racism row.

I think people have given really balanced answers well most.... we have more in common that divides us OP. There are very few people on the planet of any colour that don't think colonial enslavery was an absolute disgrace and should never ever be repeated.

This.

I totally agree with you OP - especially re British history. The history of the empire should absolutely be on every child's curriculum from Year 7 onwards. If it were, I am certain we wouldn't get nearly the amount of "whataboutism", eye-rolling, ignorance, and yes downright racism, that British people with Commonwealth heritage have to endure, even this far into the 21st century.

Studying colonialism in the nineteenth century not that long ago, at a top-10 University in the UK, was eye-opening, infuriating and utterly dismaying I can totally understand all those Reform votes.

Education is wasted on a lot of humans these days.

🤔 Explain please

I'm white and Irish. Technically as 'white' as is possible. I'm not going to explain our history here, nor do I expect anyone to apologise for their forefathers actions. I have never experienced racism but my father did as a young man. My grandfather even more so and the generation above lived through brutal oppression. It's insulting to those people to suggest they are part of the 'white behaviour' and minimising the very real conflicts between culture and religion that went on for so long. We weren't colonised because of our race, it was about power and anyone weaker was fair game regardless of skin colour.

Oh come on, you can't seriously be proud of that heritage? It was mere greed and power grabbing and human life was an acceptable sacrifice and money making scheme.

Slaves we're treated like mere objects. If universities are teaching anything but the raw truth then shame on them.

I would definitely describe the tone of some posts on here as “up in arms”. Protesting vigorously

Teaching equality and dangers of stereotyping is lovely, but fails to cut to the root cause. The book I’ve suggested does, for those really trying to understand questions like those posed by the OP

The history of the empire should absolutely be on every child's curriculum from Year 7 onwards

Yes, agree especially with this part.
It's woeful that we can ditch history practically as soon as entering high school (you choose your option courses - ie the lessons you want to learn - from year 8 now. So that's around age 12/13.)
I say this as someone who couldn't wait to ditch history myself at school as I found it "boring!"
I'm interested now though, and a lot still aren't.
Which is why it should be taught more in schools.
From the other "angle" too.
Which it wasn't always when I was at school.

It’s not irrelevant as you are saying history is ‘whitewashed’
Slavery happened and is still happening. Honestly I’m more concerned about those who endure it in this century.
Every country will put a spin on current affairs and it’s not until someone stands up and releases the truth (look at covid) that we can learn lessons and move forward.
Windrush was a scandal and I know when they emigrated they were met with hostility only to settle and then be treated appallingly by home office immigration laws.
Racism exist unfortunately, homophobia exists all ‘isms’ exist. We should be calling out this behaviour because no one should be treated less favourably, hence equality laws.
mBritish history is very long, good and bad. We can and have learned from it. Is it so wrong to talk about the good things a country did?

@Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong

I'm white and Irish. Technically as 'white' as is possible. I'm not going to explain our history here, nor do I expect anyone to apologise for their forefathers actions. I have never experienced racism but my father did as a young man

I guess I mean White English mentality (of some, not all!) to clarify
I say this as white English myself

I was taught how terribly Britain treated other countries and people of all colours, as you can probably tell.

I was also taught how the Romans behaved in much the same way to people of all skin colours.

I still think that while history must be taught, we shouldn't be teaching people that "white people" did it, when in reality colonials did it.

My worry is when you keep telling someone they are a certain way eventually they embrace the label... hence the swing to the right we are currently seeing in this country.

Again this brings us back to how much of history can be taught given the time restraints. I imagine most secondary school history education covers parts of the British empire in some way.

You might scoff but by the standards of the day he was a restrained and a fairly just king.

Wow, the amount of points whistling over people's heads here.

I used to feel a bit hard done by that 'people were making out I was bad for being white', but then I listened to people who were different to me and I learned, at least a little bit.

So many people are determined to ignore the way in which oppression is systemic. Yes, white people are not the only people who have done bad things. But also yes, the harm created by colonialism and so on has a disproportionate impact on disparity of opportunity in the world today. More so than that of the Mongol hordes, more than that of other cultures who engaged in slavery. That's why it matters.

And no - no one is expecting white people to grovel or apologise for being white. For a start that would be making it all about ourselves and focusing on guilt rather than making things better, which is the opposite of what those asking for greater social justice want.

We have to get over ourselves, stop taking everything about white people personally and actually listen.

@Mummy2024

My worry is when you keep telling someone they are a certain way eventually they embrace the label... hence the swing to the right we are currently seeing in this country

I can see that point...
I personally though think how is it talking about me? If I'm not displaying oppressive behaviour myself for example.
So it just seems daft (to me) to think "oh you're talking about all white people!"
No, just highlighting an attitude which is interesting to talk about.
Yes it's a worry though that not all see it that way and see it as an attack instead, hence the swing to the right lately.

This, well said! 👏👏

Especially this bit
And no - no one is expecting white people to grovel or apologise for being white. For a start that would be making it all about ourselves and focusing on guilt rather than making things better, which is the opposite of what those asking for greater social justice want

We have to get over ourselves, stop taking everything about white people personally and actually listen

Well as we are living in the northern hemisphere, more pricicely Europe and to pin point it the United Kingdom. We are inclined to learn about the history and culture of the land and its people.
I'm sure if you lived on an other continent, say Asia and more precisely Korea you'd learn about their history and culture.
There is no such thing as white behaviour in history.. There is only human behaviour and that is atrocious to put it bluntly.

If you'd like to learn more about a particular people or land, just jump down that Internet rabbit hole! I find Google solar most enlightening when it comes to checking out the credibility of various sources.

The responses on here just reinforce the point the OP is trying to make. We are only just starting to teach History in schools in a more balanced way.