To wonder why it's so controversial to talk about white behaviour throughout history?

[BeachParty]

It's an interesting discussion to have, and makes you think.
Why do so many immediately go into "how dare you!" mode or "why are you being racist towards white people?!"
Instead of actually listening to what people are saying? History is whitewashed in this country, we usually learn it from a "hero" viewpoint.

I can't see how you can't compare the behaviour of one race to another - surely by categorising them separately, that's exactly what you are looking to do? Presumably you perceive 'white behaviour' as worse than the behaviour of other races? That's making a comparison, whichever way you look at it.

@BeachParty People of all colour creeds and religions have enslaved other people of all colours religions and creeds since the dawn of time including their own.

So why are you only focused on white on black? serious question. Why such a narrow definition and what time line out of all the centuries are you specifically aiming for?

White people just got in there first, if black people had had guns, the compass, sailing ships etc? do you think they would behaved any differently?

We do discuss it. Most people under the age of about 60 will have covered topics ranging from the Crusades, enslavement, empire, Britain’s role in the creation of the Americas, European colonisation of Africa, and Commonwealths on their school syllabuses. If you walk into a branch of Waterstones, huge swathes of the shelves are dedicated to books which examine same. What gives you the impression that it’s controversial?

Most people object to the idea that they personally need to feel a sense of shame or fault over the actions of their distant ancestors - which is probably where phrases like “white behaviour” create issue. Is that what you believe there needs to be more of?

Well I could contribute quite a lot to this discussion, since my academic specialism is genocide and interracial conflict.

But if I'm not allowed to talk about non-white "behaviour" then my wings are a bit clipped.

Yeah, mine were similar. Crofters in Scotland some of whom lost their livelihoods and their homes during the clearances. They were white people treated abominably by other white people.

But OP there are people currently in camps in China and being massacred in Myanmar and Sudan, those doing the oppressing aren't white. People have been oppressed by lots of different groups in history, they weren't all 'white' people. Your argument doesn't stand up and comes across as very naive.

Half my ancestors merrily oppressed the other half.

You can drop history lessons at the age of 13 in England so a lot of people don't have much history knowledge much past primary age.
As for libraries being full of history books, yes but you have to want to do that for yourself and actively learn, whereas a lot don't.
(Not saying it's wrong to not want to learn, just a lot don't as have no interest)

TAAT. Bore off.

@BeachParty what about Mongolian behaviour? They were pretty oppressive as I remember it. I think they were the precursor to the dark ages.

What about the Egyptians? They had several thousand years in the ascendancy I think.

Where do the Romans fit in?

I don't think it's valid to describe history according to the races of those involved.

And actually the UK was shaped by waves of invaders and settlers. We've had wars and been a colony of France most regularly and recently. How does that work with white behaviour?

I think you may need a different lens to view life through as this one doesn't seem very productive.

Placemarking for OPs wonderful history lesson

Apparently only white people commit atrocities 🙄

I haven't said that though, have I 🙄

What makes you think it’s controversial. It’s all anyone ever seems to talk about these days. Eve Evil white people and white guilt

This kind of chat only sets back race relations. Ordinary people see this kind of thing and think “here we go again, we’re the worst thing ever” and eventual shut down to real racism.

I missed the original thread this is about so not sure the context.

But I do think that when we consider western history, there's a huge resistance to accept that some level or racism and/or race-related behaviour led to a great deal of events, many of which are still felt as consequences today.

I studied history in South Africa. It's incredible how much resistance and defensiveness I get when I mention that many of the laws and policies that subsequently became part of Apartheid were, in fact, implemented by the British originally.

I think race, and ethnicity, are inevitably a part of many historical facts including, for example, issues in Rwanda.

Yes, this. If you get antagonism it may be because you’re being very “straw man” in your approach - saying “why can’t we ever discuss x”, “history is taught from white hero perspective here” - it’s so much more nuanced than that. There are enormous discussions all the time, on tv, among groups of people, at work, on the news, in magazines, online, all the time about the very negative impacts of white colonialism etc. Have a look at the school and university history curriculum - they aren’t learning “this important white man was the best and explained to the silly natives how to run their country”. You’re basically saying to a whole group of educated people “why are you all blind idiots who can’t discuss anything” when that’s not true.

If you have a particular example - eg you were talking to a friend and they said “it’s a shame we aren’t still in charge of India” or “slave traders had a point” then yes of course, raise it, bring that up as a discussion here and see what people think, have that discussion. But don’t start out with a generalised massively oversimplified half wrong statement and expect everyone to engage - you have some good things to raise but since you sandwich them in with a whole lot of untrue sweeping statements, people are going to step in to correct your misapprehension.

I think it’s because this has been discussed endlessly for the past 10 years and there seems no end point to it. There has been Black Lives Matter and lots of other movements teaching white people about the sins of their past.
White people are also allowed to be proud of their past achievements because as with all nations there was good and bad in our past.

It was controversial thread as the OP was blatantly racist and clearly mums net agreed. Stop stirring

This issue is not as (ha) black and white as Black and White....https://www.hellomagazine.com/film/516611/antiques-roadshow-expert-tears-up-refuses-to-value-item/#

You’ve implied oppression is white behaviour. Have you not?

What is 'white behaviour ' OP and what makes so called 'white behaviour' any different to colonisers and oppressors of other races?

If you’re actually trying to say something else, then you need to be specific.

You could launch a conversation about the excesses of the British Empire.

But you need to be specific rather than talking about white behaviour. Irish and welsh heritage people will struggle to see themselves as the beneficiaries of white behaviour. Our lands were plundered by invaders too, and we didn’t get to do any invading ourselves.

Think the mongols killed something like 10% of the world population. Pretty awful.