To wonder why it's so controversial to talk about white behaviour throughout history?

[BeachParty]

It's an interesting discussion to have, and makes you think.
Why do so many immediately go into "how dare you!" mode or "why are you being racist towards white people?!"
Instead of actually listening to what people are saying? History is whitewashed in this country, we usually learn it from a "hero" viewpoint.

@TempestTost I agree, history is taught at local level, relevant to the country you are living in. It's a way of showcasing how we got to the here and now.

And believe it or not, its difficult to obtain accurate information for other Continents or countries... unless you speak the language of course!
My prime example is DC A-level history essay which was on China- from the mid 1800's to the mid 1900's. It's difficult to obtain information that isn't a "western source" and is able to paint an unbiased view of events.

I guess it’s trendy to denigrate white people now. Not allowed to celebrate the immense achievements of many white Europeans and Americans throughout history. It has to all be negative.

Do we ever get to talk about brown or black behaviour (if we’re lumping races together as a monolith) throughout history? Or do we have to pretend non-white people have some inherent moral superiority simply because of their skin colour?

Does anyone go to Japan and demand they examine their behaviour throughout history? Nigeria? India? Does anyone demand they feel ashamed of their achievements? No, and no.

That sounds judgy, but an anecdote (from 1990) when my sister lived in a west African capital city. We were pulled over for an imagined traffic offense on Friday afternoon, and threatened with imprisonment for the "offense". All the traffic officer wanted was a bung to fund his weekend spends. It cost about $10 "donation to police funds" in cash. Almost every public functionary in Africa is on the take for themselves.

I don’t agree. Looks like ‘diversity’ and the incredible generosity and openness of the British people have been thrown back in our face. Mono-ethnic countries don’t get this shit.

Most people who came here did so voluntarily. There are many more countries on earth that are almost exclusively black or brown. They were always an option. But people flock to the UK from all over the world.

And if you choose to live somewhere it’s pretty fucking ungrateful to expect it to change to suit you. If I go and live in Japan I would expect to be in a racial minority - and I would expect to fit in with their culture. The only way societies can survive is by concentrating on what citizens have in common. By sharing a narional identity. Race essentialism
is poison. As is the bigotry of low expectations

My family were non English speaking white people in UK who were forcibly cleared from their land, banned from speaking their language, owing property and oppressed by other white people. The few left behind died from the common cold brought by their oppressors. Not all slavery was inflicted only on black people.

On the other hand @PTSDBarbiegirl , you've been saved from a life of harvesting seaweed in the Hebrides to feed cattle and now have the freedom and education to post on MN about how appallingly you have been abused.

It’s not whitewashed as we lesrmed lots of awful stuff the English did when I was in school / that’s going back 30 odd years.

Also had a really interesting chat about it with my dd taking her to school in the car.

When we were going about the world taking over countries we did shocking stuff - barbaric things - and we were definitely not the only European countries do this. Spain, Portugal and Holland were brutal too. Portugal particularly kicking off the slave trade from Africa and taking over in the Philippines which I didn’t know about until I started working with two Philippino women.

But it was a long long time ago and weve moved on massively - to the point people from all round the world want to live here.

The problem is people want apologies for things that happened 700 - 500 hundred years ago and that’s often leading to wanting ‘reparations ’

I told my DD somethings that happened in India and she was shocked but I told her to never be embarrassed about her country as she wasn’t even born then - as neither was I.

Pretending that there exists such a thing as "white behaviour" is every bit as repellent as asserting that "black behaviour" or "brown behaviour" exist.

I'll never buy into white privilege!

In UK 100,000's of white girls where gang raped, drugged, some murdered and sexually trafficked around the country by men of mainly Pakistani heritage.

And the social services, council, police and government openly covered it up for decades because they didn't want to be seen as racist... So they decided it was more acceptable for white girls as young as 11 to be raped then openly prosecute and shed light to what's going on.

Note!!!! I understand white men can rape too, I'm not talking about the rapists, I'm talking about the police, council, government, media and social services all colluding with each other to hide what was happening.

I never said Britain should change it's values or adapt to suit other cultures.

But other cultures have contributed to and shaped Britain as it is today. Black British people are as British as white British people. Which is why schools teach about Mary Seacole, Windrush, Notting Hill Carnival and celebrate BHM and rightly so.

British already has changed it's culture to adapt to other cultures. 🤦🏼‍♀️

100,000s?! It was nowhere near that number!! What happened was absolutely awful but let's not tell blatant lies. The truth is bad enough.

I think you forgot to a 'White' in front of your username.

Looks like ‘diversity’ and the incredible generosity and openness of the British people have been thrown back in our face. Mono-ethnic countries don’t get this shit.
This is the equivalent of a rapist moaning about his victim being ungrateful for the generosity of his attention. We thank you for structural, overt and unconscious racism. Black mothers are especially grateful for your generosity during pregnancy, labor and beyond... I personally love how generously shop assistants give me their attention when I enter a shop...

Most people who came here did so voluntarily.
Often from lands ravaged by white brutality, privilege and entitlement. Many are from places around the globe which have been asset stripped and where God fearing men had tried to rape the colour out of its peoples, whilst murdering its men and children. The victims of the Windrush scandal were rewarded handsomely for coming here voluntarily to help rebuild the country after a war between white people.

if you choose to live somewhere it’s pretty fucking ungrateful to expect it to change to suit you.
British empire anyone? Apartheid? The Raj? Lets ask Māoris, Native Americans, First Nation peoples and Aboriginals their thoughts. Closer to home what do the Spanish think of the British people who have moved there and not bothered to learn Spanish?

You guys are so fucking marvelous, I don't know where we would be without you. 🙄

Catholic priests anyone?

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting

You guys are so fucking marvelous, I don't know where we would be without you. 🙄

I doubt that it would be in the Utopia that so many seem to believe that it would be.

So predictable. Facts met with fairy tales.

Do you mean these are the countries that have been occupied by white Europeans that caused atrocities?

Yet you have not forth a discussion point, to counter the point being made.

Is it that you don't think that it would be a utopia because there were many different people fighting each other and taking others to be sold as slaves, raped in wars etc.

Or you believe that it would be/was a utopia and was only spoiled by the white man arriving?

slavery, child beating, women not having a voice, just some of history that was mentioned
in society today, modern day slavery, young women being victims of genital mutalation, girls of 12 being forced to marry a grown man.

none appears to be mentioned. Still wanna discuss white history or discuss what’s going on modern day in all races and the wrongs of society

Unfortunately that would mean that all creeds, colours and religions would have to take some responsibly for their actions and various areas don't seem to want to do that.

👏👏exactly

Yet you have not forth a discussion point, to counter the point being made.
I presented some basic facts to the points raised. I didn't mention uptopia because it doesn't exist, a bit like the world that WRB described. Racism 101 - its not my fucking job to educate you.

Would you congratulate descendants of African slaves for their British education and access to MN? Case in point.

I'm not asking you to "fucking educate" me.

I'm trying to have a discussion with you.
If you don't want to then don't "fucking" have one.

The Irish and Welsh [ and Scots] were all over the colonies fyi (and no, not just as oppressed servants and dispossessed emigrants). They don't like to face this, but tough.