To wonder why it's so controversial to talk about white behaviour throughout history?

[BeachParty]

It's an interesting discussion to have, and makes you think.
Why do so many immediately go into "how dare you!" mode or "why are you being racist towards white people?!"
Instead of actually listening to what people are saying? History is whitewashed in this country, we usually learn it from a "hero" viewpoint.

I love a discussion. This thread is not a discussion, unless you have a very low bar for what a discussion is. It's the usual racially motivated dross, 'racism doesn't exist', 'its not true', 'be grateful', 'ethnic countries are just as bad' different iterations of the racist's version of NAMALT.

What do you know about the development of countries and communities around the world before the colonial empires reached them? What do you know about what it is like to be an ethnic minority in this country? Closer to home what do you know about racism and unequal health outcomes. What do you know about structural and systemic racism?

Its funny women can be trusted recognise sexism and misogyny but ethnic minorities cannot be trusted to recognise racism.

Have white English people been enslaved, their country taken over?

Err, Vikings raping and pillaging, Romans taking over a large portion of the country…..

Also, not buying into “white privilege” either, and no one ever better say that to my face. I’ve lived in a few other countries and you just wouldn’t get away there with saying the majority of the original population were privileged. They’d lose their shit.

I think you forgot to a 'White' in front of your username

Oh look! They are trying to imply that you are doing a RaCisM. Don’t let people like this shame you ffs

This is the equivalent of a rapist moaning about his victim being ungrateful for the generosity of his attention

Nobody brought you or your ancestors to the UK. They freely chose to arrive. Most countries do not allow you to just go to another country and ‘become’ as a local. It’s just not a thing. But white British people have broadened what it means to be British to encompass people of vastly different cultures and ethnicities.

I personally question the wisdom of this, but they did it and your ancestors took advantage of the opportunity.

Often from lands ravaged by white brutality, privilege and entitlement

Pretty much the human condition. You could also blame the Ottomans, Mughals and Bantus for doing the same but …. it isn’t in your interest to highlight any of that

where God fearing men had tried to rape the colour out of its peoples, whilst murdering its men and children

Tbh that doesn’t sound like it happened at any large scale. Be specific. To what incident are you referring?

Do you think people from the Hebrides today spend their time collecting seaweed instead of attending school?
Do you think they don't learn to read or write? Why would an ancestor staying in the Hebrides (instead of being forced to leave) mean that someone is unable to post on MN today?

Yes it is. Your post is about the negative behaviours of white people. How can you say that’s not racist? It comes across as goady and race baiting. And I have responded because I find it offensive, much like several other posters have.

What are you talking about? The poster was specifically talking about the grooming done by men of "Pakistani heritage" - her words. This thread is insane.

Whataboutery has carried this thread. You can't draw the line when it stops suiting you.

I really don't understand what people are talking about. A PP said 100,000s girls were abused by Pakistani gangs in the UK. I responded it was awful but nowhere near 100,000s. Someone else responded to me "Catholic priests?". I responded that the PP was talking specifically about Pakistani men. Now you say this?
I'm so lost and confused by all these responses 🤣🤣

This thread is specifically about white people, yes it is full of "what about xyz". You can't moan just when it goes the other way.
It is a "whataboutery" as valid as any other on this thread.

OK, I'm not moaning. I was just confused. Maybe I need more sleep.

Also I wonder is people are aware of the slavery in Africa and Asia that is happening today - 7 million slaves in Africa today

We are berated for things we did 700-500 years ago yet those people turn a blind eye to what’s happening now because it’s not politically correct to shine a light on it.

Bad bad white people…..

www.okoarefuge.org/modern-day-slavery-the-sad-reality-of-human-trafficking-in-africa/

Not true.

White people are continually told how awful they are/were and the problems they've caused. Also continually asked to apologise for it. Brought up constantly. Me or no-one in my ancestry was involved in the slave trade but tarred with the same brush as the small number of wealthy people who were.

I think it's easy, convenient and a cop out to just blame white western nations for all the problems of the world. But there you go.

The history no one ever talks is what atrocities Middle Easterns rulers carried out in India for centuries.

Apparently problems only started when white people arrived. Utopia before that.

I can see MN are allowing this goady thread continuing. Well that's not a surprise, no wonder so many are voting for reform ect.

It's just like media and film virtually every single character is either of colour or in a mixed relationship. Schools and universities' are are evaluating all they teach and as the say goes white colonial history all bad you should be ashamed.

Cut, deleted remove or edit out anything and everything that may be perceived to be triggering. Forums full of bullshit posts like "White behavior" where the reverse would be immediately banned. Quite frankly as a caucasian white country, where a majority are 83% white still, it has no reflection on the new movement trying to make every thing 50% / 50% and more.

Since the black lives matter protests (USA Induced hysteria) and taking the knee its appears there is a growing culture of divisive behaviour where particular members of society feel free to now bully harass and goad hiding behind this knowing people are to scared or afraid to speak out for being canceled.

Well I for one have had enough and I can sense resentment growing within the community where I live and you reap what you sow.

I have no white guilt and no remorse, I have reuse to accept I have privilege and live my life to support my family and friends.I dont give a shit what your colour is as long as you are qualified to your job and your the best person for it.

If you want to claim coutries are still behind the times in racial and social norms them go to Dubai, go to the east. Hell go to any other country and none and I guarantee you none would bend over quite like this country.

The UK since the dawn of time has been a melting pot of conquer, rape, pillage and slavery, all our ancestors no matter what color they are have been subject to horrific and barbaric treatment throughout the ages. No one group holds the I win button and for god sake there is far more to history than the time of just colonial slave history.

If you so damn bothered about making some change, go to the arab muslim countries and protest there about the 1500 years of arab muslim slaves from africa and how they castrated and abused them. Lets see how long you last, the UK is a welcoming tolerant society and it seems some are not content until they break that.

I don’t think it is necessary to self-flagellate just because we are discussing effects of invasions and colonialism.
I certainly do not feel personally responsible for anything that has happened before my time, but it is interesting to study and pick at the mechanisms. It is human nature in all its awfulness and glory.

Also, it is too late. These things have already happened. The good thing is that more voices and stories from the past can be read, heard and studied now so we can get a fuller picture (even if it can never be complete).
Can we avoid repeating the mistakes?
It doesn’t look like it. But wider points of reference for people rarely goes amiss in my opinion.

I think some people (particularly younger people) in the west are so anti West whilst forgetting how lucky they are to actually live in the west. So they just keep slating the western countries.

Some ignore any accountability of individual nations to sort themselves out a bit. Its all poor them, its our fault. Everything is the fault of the west, ignore uncomfortable untruths that it isn't.

It seems to me that you are suffering from what many are claiming that "white" people are suffering from.

Not wanting to admit that your heritage has (in some cases) a very nasty past.

Why is that?

Very few countries histories are innocent of bad behaviour.
It just seems that many people just enjoy pointing it out to white people and dislike it when the truth is spoken back to them.

For all this talk of history should be taught as the truth, there are very few people that seem to actually want that.

I remember a history textbook in the 00s

It stated the Arabs enslaved black people before the people from Europe began taking Slaves to America but this was ok somehow because they could buy their freedom or something along those lines

How convenient I thought

Yes have to agree

Op, why do you have to start a thread when you are not impacted by any of it. Is it to tell us how morally superior you are by having such fair thoughts? I am Indian and what your ancestors did to mine does not worry me in my day to day life.

What annoys me is your virtue signalling and attacking people with words like whataboutry to shut a fair discussion. Because you are English, you only know what British Empire did to common wealth countries, because I am Indian I know what other nations did to India and other Asian countries and noone talks about it. You feel virtuous talking about white atrocities. Fact is any one group of people with power and resources had exploited others. You got your daily dose of showing us how much worried you are for poor us, maybe let us deal with that. Those Indians who don't stay in past have built the country and its wealth, some have left the country and able to work in so called prestigious professions. Don't worry about us, try tp fix problems of your own people. You have no empathy for those who in your own neighbourhood are suffering, have voted for shitty government's to make people poorer, old people lacking care, fix that first.

I think your post is mixing up what is the subject of the thread and your personal feelings now. As previously stated, most people in the UK are happy to discuss our history, including the parts that don't reflect on Britain well.

Trying to conflate your opinions and feelings today with history from hundreds of years ago, does nobody any good.
Using health outcomes as an example, there are genetics at play for poorer health. Illness like diabetes and obesity are found higher in black women than White.
Or the oft quoted fact that black women are far more likely to die in childbirth. To give a true indication if it is a failure by medical staff, you need to look at factors like pre-existing illness, do black women have more babies than white (eg twice as many babies means double the risk), is home birthing more common in blacks. As well as a number of other factors.

This

How many countries have a clean and innocent history. Its just some countries get slated more for what occurred hundreds of years ago than other countries do.

I suspect it is to do with the perceived wealth this Country has in comparison to others. There are some camps that repeatedly say the UK should pay compensation to atone for wealthy Brits from hundreds of years ago making money from owning slaves.

In reality higher taxation of those making higher wages today is (or should be) paying for a health and benefit system that benefits those of lesser means today. Be they black, white, green, blue, red or anything else.

The problem is OP and others are confusing History with some kind of SJW team sport.

History is the study of who did what and why; cause and effect.

If you decide to categorise people purely by skin colour before you even start, you're making it impossible to really examine what happened. Because people aren't lumpen blocs of ethnicity. Different states, societies, organisations, regions, tribes, families and individuals act independently of each other and in differing ways for differing reasons.