to expect all the weirdos,murders,phyco's sent to jail to get "real" jail time[angry]

[ppie]

call me unreasonable but when are people sent to jail going to get real punishment??
It seems its quite the norm now just to get a couple of years for a stabbing, drink driving and kill somebody, give them a wee fine and a few points.Even better, jail them maybe 5 years and a five year ban, to run concurrently !!!!!. I want youth detention facilitys to be a detterent not a bloody holiday camp,where they "rehabilitate" playing a Wii anf flaming absailing.
No doubt some bleeding heart will say its not their fault and a bit of tlc will cure them. Well if god forbid if something happened to any of their family would they be happy if that was the punishment Rant over!!!

No, not there, Australia's nice, anywhere not nice, maybe a war zone, or perhaps three strikes and you're out, as abviously you are now choosing to live a life of crime if you manage to get caught 3 times.

If true re-habilitation is 'done' then a significant majority of people wouldn't re-offend, we're just in the worst case IMHO at the moment - prison, although a loss of liberty, doesn't really appear to be much of a punishment or punitive measure (lots of human rights - what about the victims' rights??), PLUS the rehabilitation programmes that are available are shockingly underfunded and shit not very effective.

Maybe the full on one to one rehabilitation programme could be effective.

Also we need to decide whether prison is for re-habilitation or for punishment.

Remember, we only HAVE prisons because we are a relatively financially well off society now. Before we were financially well off the criminals would have just been executed as they would have been viewed as a waste of resources. Hence people being sent down under, as trail blazers in a really hostile environment...who cared if they died? No-one...they were criminals.

I am advocating the rehabilitation element of the plan, with a final punitive measure once society has done all they can to get you back as a good guy or gal.

I think you speak sence bb99

you know, I wasn't actually serious about deporting our criminals to Australia...

ppie - how old are you? If you don't mind me asking?

Deport peopel that are criminals?
Oh, you mean get rid of them from our coutry and send them to another?
Because we deserve less criminals than some other country I assume?

33 why??

just wondered...

Or do you mean deport foreign nationals who offend?

I can see that, tbh.

And it's starting to be done more here.

Maybe, but maybe I'm just a bit of a fascist fanatic, who thinks you need to choose and decide if you're in, or if you're out of society, and if you're out, you're out - go somewhere else, and quit bugging me IYSWIM.

BUT I do believe you need to give people a chance - maybe the identifying criminal vulnerability in childhood would be a good one, then the vulnerable kids could be supported in going to really posh nob schools (I think it costs about the same to imprison a lifer as it does to send someone to Eton) and they may see the opportunities and grow different aspirations to the inevitable ones...

I think it's very ironic that most one-off murderers (not talking kiddy killers/serial killers etc) DON'T actually re-offend as murder is generally a crime of passion, yet we spend an absolute fortune paying for them to be kept in high security prisons...wouldn't it make a lot more sense to make them work and pay some kind of compensation to the victims' families, rather than just locking them up for the sake of it?

no, expat. She meant deport all criminals. To a war zone preferably.

OK - on the deporting, maybe we could create a new land mass and use that??

we now appear to have reached a stage where a petty criminal who reoffends gets shipped off to Iraq without hope of an appeal, but murderers get let off...

I think

Why not fly them to the moon.

Yes definetly, if somebody moves to this country from anywhere in the world, does a serious crime, deport them back.

create a new land mass?

hmm.... yeah, maybe that'll work...

VS and contaminate the moon?

It won't be much of a tourist destination then, will it?

hmm?

Oh FFS we are on to deportation now?

Christ on a bike

Yep that'll work.

I do agree that any foreign nationals who commit crimes here should have their residency revoked.
If only it were as simple as immigrants being responsible for the majority of crimes.

I saw two guys on Traffic Cops last week who were busted for driving a car with no proper license or insurance.

Come to find out, they were also illegal immigrants.

They were deported.

Seems fair.

I mean, why should I have to pay to sit the tests - not cheap - and pay for insurance and others get off without doing it at all, especially when they're not even supposed to be here?

I like the new policies of immediately seizing and crushing the vehicles of people with no insurance.

theres a big floating island of junk waste floating about the atlantic.Wimpy could fling up a prison in a few weeks . they build on all the crap land around mine Flood plains and everything, honestly

in the situation expat described... fair enough.

Without wanting to get overly philosophical about these things, we live in a society that tries to uphold justice, not retribution. That is why we do not ask the victims to choose the punishment for the perpetrator. It is possible to see the logic in this position if you consider how DIFFERENT each punishment would be if we allowed victims retribution.

For example, say someone stole 2 loaves of bread. Victim A may feel that it is sad that the thief was so hungry that they felt they had to steal food, and may decide that the thief should be given help rather than harsh punishment. Victim B may feel that there is absolutely no justifiable reason that a person should ever steal, hungry or not, and think that the thief should get jail time. Who is right? So, we have a legal system and trials, precedents and a level of "impartiality" in determining punishments. The system is not perfect, but I think that it is illogical of the OP to imply that victims or their families should be able to decide prison terms or punishments. Of course victims should have a say and of course laws should be questioned (we live in a democracy), but it is ridiculous to trot out the "how would you feel if" line of thinking, without considering why victims are not given carte blanche to retaliate or decide jail terms all by themselves.

Yeah definitely.
I'm even for chilling out on human rights once someone horrifically violates another beings human rights but it's a really fine line.

good post, blue