to expect all the weirdos,murders,phyco's sent to jail to get "real" jail time[angry]

[ppie]

call me unreasonable but when are people sent to jail going to get real punishment??
It seems its quite the norm now just to get a couple of years for a stabbing, drink driving and kill somebody, give them a wee fine and a few points.Even better, jail them maybe 5 years and a five year ban, to run concurrently !!!!!. I want youth detention facilitys to be a detterent not a bloody holiday camp,where they "rehabilitate" playing a Wii anf flaming absailing.
No doubt some bleeding heart will say its not their fault and a bit of tlc will cure them. Well if god forbid if something happened to any of their family would they be happy if that was the punishment Rant over!!!

I'm not, was responding to what people were saying about young offenders instit.

I do prison visiting in a young offenders place - they have all in my experience had atrocious lives.

do you knwo i kidn of agree wiht the OP/
ola

Separate issues here though.

Proper sentencing = yes

Life means life = yes

Breaking up rocks with bare hands, hosing down wih cold water, flogging for breaking prison rules, slopping out = probably not

Whether or not it's "their fault" is also an entirely separate debate

ppie, not all people in prison are there because they have killed children whilst drink driving
Some really have had shit lives, and have turned to crime through knowing no other way to support themselves.
I don't think anyone on this thread beleives drink driving or violent assault or rape or paedophilia to be crimes that necessarily get their just desserts punishment wise, but the petty criminals are called 'petty' criminals for a reason and if caught and given proepr decent help early enough could possibly be rehabilitated.

because it's not a part of a civilised society. Just because someone carries out an uncivilised act doesn't mean society should respond in kind.

"A society is judged to be civilised by the way it treats its prisoners"

Seriously, lets look at the human rights records of countries that have capital punishment.

I'd like to say that we shouldn't kill anyone, but remove human rights from those who have committed terrible crimes, like murder/rape/child abuse.
I'd also like to say that once we have removed their human rights we should use them to test new medical research on, or cosmetics etc instead of animals, but I know it's not practical and no matter how good an idea it sounds, it wouldn't work.

petty criminals are a differnt matter altogether. your example Sleepycat , he is pure evil to the core and I dont think could ever be helped. He seemed to think a good he would get away with it by saying that he just had sex with the body.people like that are a true waste of society and tax payers money.

completely agree with VictorianS, and although it would be impossible to bring back capital punishment in this country i do think chemical castration should be used on rapits/peodos etc. its the only way to make sure they never re-offended imo

I dont know about that victoriansqualor, sounds good to me. Prisons should be like the one i saw on tv in the states. It just a big old concrete block, no windows , he haw in the cell. I think they get out for 1hr a day, not even sure if that was in the outside. It also has something to do with chemically castrating child abusers,a nd that was the abusers themselfs who were saying it was the only thing that would stop them doing it again

pppie - can you tell me please what you mean by weirdos?

(and murders and phyco's )

Of course ppie, because t stops Americans offending doesn't it...
Oh. no actually the criminals in those jails are just much fucking harder!
People change to accomodate their circumstances.

people just have to accept that unfortunately some people are just born bad to the bone and cannot be changed no matter what the upbringing, circumstances. It is all so PC nowdays that, yes lauriefairycake sorry if i offend you, kids get away with quite litrally murder. Yes some children may have horrendous family problems ect, that should be dealt with picked up in the "system" earlier. However if they do something unspeakable, 10-15yrs{ thay know theyll be out b4 that} i dont think will change them. Theyll be out at 30 yrs to start afresh, not like their victims.

3rd time asking. What do you mean by 'weirdos'?

accept that people are born bad to the bone?

oh fgs I'm shutting the computer down!

'people just have to accept some people are born bad to the bone'. Never will I accept that.

as I remember the US has a higher proportion of their population in prison than almost anywhere else, so that isn't working is it? They don't have a lower crime rate as a result.

Can't see how much rehabilitation work is getting done in our prisons at the moment though, what with the prison population being so high, and so close to the capacity of the prisons according to the papers.

Rehabilitation work is very hit and miss within the prison system.

As an add-on to fletchers last sentence, is that not why 'safe' offenders are allowed out quicker?
We don't have the capacity to hold them.

It is a shame that america seems unlucky in having so many more people born bad to the bone I guess

Spend the £20,000 it costs (I think) to keep them in jail paying an individual to rehabilitate them in society ie follow them around and mentor them for the entirety of the sentence, making them get back into work and back into society.

Then if they re-offend, deport them and take their passport away and don't ever let them back again, like the great train robbher

prison population

not much space when you share it out amongst 140+ prisons is it? And when some of those are women's prisons or young offenders prisons or immigration detention centres?

Perhaps there is a test that could be done on people at birth to see if they are 'bad to the bone'. It would save a fortune if they could be 'dealt' with then rather than let them grow up.

deport them to where? Australia?