Thread 2 - Is anyone else on here pro-trans

[tinydaisies]

I was really enjoying the 1st thread, hopefully it's ok to have a follow on so we can continue debating

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5115405-to-ask-if-anyone-else-on-mn-is-not-anti-trans

Hopefully this isn't a TAAT.

Which sounds like a massive safeguarding situation. What happens if a man just declares they are a trans women and turns up?

But you can legally refuse to have a transwomen I suspect if you run a B&B for women only.

Air B&B policies are just that - their business policies

Natal sex is used for same sex spaces.

No it isn’t.

😂😂 👏🏻 👏🏻

Wow. So no protection at all for women. What is the point of this policy if you include males?

MissScarlet I am getting the impression from that poster that they hold a pretty prejudiced view on what points of view women who are campaigning to have sex prioritised over gender when sex matters hold.

It doesn't seem like a well informed view point from some of the posts that we are seeing.

I look forward to Wookie answering the questions I have asked about what they expect to change in their opinion if we considered the 'psychological and mental' aspect of transgender people. Because maybe they have a fresh perspective.

Or maybe they are just like others who think that woman should accept being emotional manipulated into lowering their boundaries, into accepting male people into their single sex spaces and spaces etc. I look forward to finding out more.

What do you believe is the law around same sex spaces under the Equality Act 2010?

But you can legally refuse to have a transwomen I suspect if you run a B&B for women only.

Air B&B policies are just that - their business policies

This.

Wow. So no protection at all for women. What is the point of this policy if you include males?

I only take one guest at a time, so the situation won’t arise.

Why do you exclude some males and not others ?

But and it’s a big but, we cannot refuse trans people. Not that I’d want to anyway.

I promise you there are plenty of "trans women" that most women would feel uncomfortable with in a female only space. Why bother specifying that you don't want males unless they say a few magic words?

Great. So it should not be an issue then. You have chosen to include male people in your personal definition of woman.

However, I think it was asked by someone else, how do you know whether they are transgender people or just some bloke who wants to stay at your BnB?

Oh FFS do you people never give up.

It is a perfectly valid question.

Do you think that this doesn't happen?

Why are we "screaming"? That better applies to the posters posting abusive comments to the women who prioritise women's rights over male feelings.

Safeguarding is a mitigation against risk, the two are inseparable.

But it is an issue for other female Air bnb owners who want the option of only having female guests. Can't you see that?

This is a rather misogynist post. Women calmly discussing the issues on this thread are now 'screaming'?

So, I take it that you will not be answering how considering the 'psychological and mental' aspects of trans people will change the requirements for female people to have single sex spaces, sports etc. Do we assume then that you were just trying politely to say, like others have on this thread, that we should just accept that some male people believe that they are just like all other female people and agree that they should be included in single sex spaces, sports etc?

The law isn’t “Natal sex is used for same sex spaces”.

People can currently use whatever toilets they feel are most appropriate for them
personally.

And Women’s Aid for example allows service users to self ID and supports the GRA.

People can currently use whatever toilets they feel are most appropriate for them
personally.

All males can use women's spaces because it isn't actually against the law not to. The decent ones don't, because they respect the privacy of women and girls. So the ones who aren't decent, stand out.

yep. Safeguarding procedures and guidelines are based on risk.

Perhaps over the next few pages a poster who supports male people accessing female single sex spaces will provide the evidence that the sub group of male people they are advocating for has collectively the same level of risk or lower than all female people in the UK have towards female people.

Because it is based on that risk level that safeguarding procedures and guidelines can be changed.

I'm not anti-trans but I'm really anti gender stereotyping or male bodied people being allowed to be where women or girls are partially clothed or otherwise vulnerable and some of the trans ideology. And they should certainly not be allowed to compete in women's sport. Other than that, if people do legally change gender then then should not suffer discrimination. But sex is important and it isn't something which is "assigned at birth".

Some of the things young kids and teenagers are learning or picking up on are super confusing. Like if you are a girl who fancies girls and has short hair then you must be a boy. What's wrong with just being gay? There seems to be an adherence to the gender stereotypes I so fought against since being a little girl. Or it feels sometimes like you are not just allowed to be androgynous and leave it for people to just wonder whether you are a boy or a girl, or a boyish girl or a girlish boy, but because someone else wants to label themselves as gender queer or polysexual then they want to force everyone else to have a label. Even in an email- who cares whether the Charlie you are emailing is male or female or what they identify as? Why should it make a difference in how you address them? Or if that particular Charlie wants to say, hey my pronouns are he/him then why does the other Charlie have to specify that should they not want to?

And I'm not a lesbian, or particularly gender non-conforming in appearance but work in a male dominated area. And I feel like I can be a girl/woman and do anything I bloody like and what I like and dislike or what I choose to do for work or who I fancy should not be determined by my sex.

It’s one of the reasons I gave up Airbnbing. We were only willing to take female guests for several reasons. Airbnb policy made it clear we were not permitted to refuse male guests who saw themselves as female so we stopped.