For being FED UP that people are living in council houses & on benefits, yet some how can afford to go on a holiday every year??

[cleo43]

I have had it with lazy shites that sit in the house that I & my dh ( the tax payer) pay for , living on money that I & my dh ( the tax payer ) make possible, having more than I have!!

Perhaps it's a little bit of a green eyed monster going on here ,but, this evening my neighbour that lives in a council house & on benefits has been round to show me her new car and ask me to look after "her" house when she and her husband ( plus the two children and a grandchild) go on holiday next week!!
I am sick of it. It was only last month that she was dragging me in to see her new giant flat screen tv!!
We can't afford these things yet we have to pay for these idiots to have them??

But is a caravan holiday a cheap holiday? I enquired about one last year and was staggered at the cost. It was cheaper to go a cottage in Dorset for a week.

Revolutionary thought -

Having lived off of the system when a lone parent and been supported by society, as a lone parent I had much more time to spend with my dc even if there was less money. I never had to worry about when or if the mortgage (at the time rent) would get paid as the HB sorted out all of that, or how the heck to pay the extortionate council tax (or get fined if I didn't) as council Tax benefit did that, I had enough money to buy food, pay bills, sort out my dc and even buy the odd plant for the garden. It was a very relaxing kind of a life and it was wonderful to have the opportunity to spend the time with dc when young. It was a very comfortable life, free from the usual stresses and while not profligate with wealth, was and is very well provided for, providing you don't expect an extravagant lifestyle.

I got back to work as a single parent and it was a very scary time - I was financially worse off for 6 months BUT then became MUCH better off and this is sometimes the problem - people are too comfortable to make the scary step. Ironically I had more spending money when a working lone parent than I have now as a working married parent! Perhaps DH and I should look at divorce...

Some of my friends have just remained on benefit and I can really understand where you're coming from. It does seem and feel really unfair if you are a working couple, not to achieve more than someone who is on benefits and not working, UNLESS there is some medical reason or commitment to caring for a special child / adult etc IMHO. It makes me really angry that people who genuinely can't work due to either their own ill health or the commitments of being a career are financially penalised because so many able bodied people insist that it is their right to choose which job they may or may not get out of bed for, or just cannot be bothered - I don't believe in the 'I am a SAHM' argument either - plenty of couples don't get that choice so IMO as soon as the children are school age, some form of employment should be mandatory. It's good for children to understand that money doesn't grow on trees...

It is mandatory in The Netherlands - there even if you have a disability preventing you from continuing your chosen career, you are retrained and re-employed, or loose your benefits.

With regard to fruit picking, you can earn £20,000 a year fruit picking, even though it's seasonal. The young men in the TV programme were disgustingly unmotivated and complete fecking spongers - the kind of people who make it difficult to live on benefits as everyone gets tarred with the same brush. AND there are all sorts of roll over programmes to help make the transition back to working more manageable, if people can be bothered to find out.

Any - try living off benefits comments...try living NOT on benefits and facing the daily grind, knowing that the apple cart can go A over T at any moment and you're one interest rate rise away from losing everything you have worked your butt off for, instead of having the time and lack of financial responsibility that I enjoyed while living on benefits.

Depends where and when you go Fimbo.

I was also staggered at the cost of a caravan holiday when I looked a few years ago. But if you go at a different time of year or a different site, it was suddenly very cheap.

I also find that if you go to Travelodge's at certain times, it's cheaper than camping. Seriously.

Trollydolly - anyone is entitled to a council house, you just have to put your name down, then whether or not you EVER get to the top of the list is a matter of priorities, ie who is deemed to be in greatest need at the time they become available.

YABU

You know it.

JSA amounts to about £100 a fortnight. Housing benefit pays almost all your rent, usually you have to pay a small contribution towards it.

If your neighbour can go on holiday, get a cool telly and a new car whilst being on JSA, frankly he's a money whiz. That's probably not the case though, I think there's something you're not telling us, like his wife works or something.

£9.50 holiday (or as we doo camping trip)
TV on HP (notice those shops are spreadinga gain) or provident loan (nasty things)
Car- a bit about that but could easily have been something they ahd and sold, or bought by a friend or family, or inherited even.

Not that we were much worse off when we were on benefits years ago- what with commuting charges and bridge tolls and all that- but most people don't want to be dependent and you cannot legislate for the few

I don't believe all these OPs about people on benefits having flat screen TVs, new cars and holidays.

I think they're making it up to stir, tbh.

Mommy6's post shows just why we need the benefit system in this country. Without it, men like her DH who has worked hard all his life would go under, taking his family with him. For those who have no sentimentality over this, think how much more it would cost to take her children into care?

The system is crap; No doubt about it. It's easy to cheat the system, though the vast majority of people don't. But hell, what do I care if someone doesn't declare £20 extra a week from taking in some ironing. Good luck to them! I'd be tempted to do the same. The stories of people living the high-life on 60k of cheated benefits are rare.

We need to overhaul the whole thing. Including benefits for those who work. Instead of topping up household incomes with taxcredits, make sure they're paid a decent wage. Minimum wage is disgustingly low and due to the loop hole of pro-rata, many workers aren't even making that!

Why are all these OP's so obsessed with the lives of other people? And WHO are these people that you know that have big holidays, flash cars, new jewellery etc? Because I don't know anyone like that. I'm too busy with my own life to spend my time being spiteful towards a group of people of whom I know NOTHING!!!

So mind your own business and if you are that jealous, give up your job and live on benefits if it looks so great! Then you can stop fucking whinging!

I get really upset at Extreme Makeover Home Edition (and even the people one sometimes) and films like Sicko because I can't believe that a government can fail it's people so badly. I think sometimes we have to remember how fortunate we are to live here. We pay less in taxes than the Americans pay in tax AND sick insurance (health care/insurance are not words I use to describe the American system)and we are well looked after. For that some people abuse the system, but it is a wonderful system that means we don't have to live like Americans we can have nice homes and our poor can live five years longer than their rich.

BTW, Housing Benefit pays for all your rent except in certain conditions. For example I used to live in a tower where the hot water for the taps and radiator came from the roof so there was a charge for this in the rent. Those of us on HB had to pay the H/HW charge ourselves. If there is a working adult or a child over a certain age they are expected to contribute a certain amount to the rent.

tink, extreme makeover home edition drives me to tears everytime. i saw one the other night about a little boy with multiple disabilies living i na house with no foundations and likely to collaspe at any point. he needed 24hour care, and his parents were so devoted. his parents cried when the EM,HE team put suction equipment in each room for him, to help keep his trach clear. i feel extremely grateful each time i watch that programme, that i live in the uk in a property that was suitable for our needs. i now want to pass this property on to another family who needs it more than us.

has there been an article on MN in the Daily Mail recenl;y? we seem to be having an influx of bigoted, ill-thought out, misogynistic bollocks atm.

glad to see you back custy

Who are the woman haters? The misogynists?

for god's sake get a grip of yourself OP

Let them do what they like, don't go next door if you don't like them.

My neighbours are quite possibly similar to yours. The man works all hours for pittance, the wife says she can't work, which is quite possibly true, her mental health fluctuates wildly. She claims benefits, they have a huge telly, holidays 3 times per year and she has just shown me a repossession order. They owe £37,500 on a carol vorderman loan that they can't pay and haven't paid the mortgage in over 6 months.

Buying stuff will not and never has made anyone happy, it only leads to wanting more stuff and that way madness lies.

Tellies play the same shit whatever size they are. Cars get you from a-b, nowt else. Holidays are nice wherever you go, it's your outlook in life that makes the difference.

good post bb99, interesting to see your view as you have experienced both sides

IMHO it's all about lifestyles.

It is annoying to see some people doing very well out of the system - and yes, they do usually 'work it' in some way, when you are working your socks off and seeming to just tread water.

I chose not to raise my children in poverty and to send them to childcare as this was important to me - not to raise in poverty rather than the childcare - I always felt like a sponger when drawing benefits, despite having worked before claiming and living off my savings before I claimed (just off to polish halo )

I think this is why people who are claiming get so defensive, because often there isn't a HUGE justification for ongoing long, drawn out claims IME - I got myself pg by being stupid and careless, had the privilage of having the most beautiful and rewarding child (lucky me) and then got back on my feet as soon as possible as I hated those flamin milk token things...and it wasn't everyone elses fecking responsibility to help me be a SAHM - if it was, then all people who had children would be paid by the government to be a SAHP IYSWIM.

Being on benefit turns into a lifestyle that sucks you in. You get used to being poor(ish) and doing the odd bit of cleaning and then you turn around and life has passed you by - at a very relaxing pace I must admit...

The guy at the post office where I cashed my book gave me the first big shove back to being a proper person again, instead of how I felt, a sponger. He kept asking me why I didn't get the money paid into a bank account instead of queuing up with the rest of them....I could kiss that man as he gave me back my self respect and the balls to get back on my feet and back to work.

glad you found someone to help you!

there is an awful lot of threads just now on this topic, it seems if you know of someone milking the benefits system and it pisses you off you should get back to reading the daily mail and mind your own.........then another thread where a poster is earning about £24 a week on the side and everyone's saying good for you.
but I haven't seen anyone condeming someone trying to earn a bit of extra cash to make ends meet, anyone pissed off on this thread seems to know families living a very comfortable lifestyle on benefits cos they are claiming fraudulently and getting away with it, at least in the case of the person I know thats whats going on. your post was good as it shows the divide from both sides.
and I'll say it again before I'm told to go off and read the daily mail or whatever paper they're all on about, benefits are necessary for most people on them, but for a select few they are a means of sitting on their arses getting money for nothing, when they have no excuse not to be out working.

I don't agree with the generalisation that there isn't ever a reason to stay on long term benefits. I would love to come off of them, but my Dr's don't think I would cope with work.

I've actually gone behind their backs and started in house training with the NHS. I'm not sure how this is going to work, whether I will prove them right and end up back where I started, whether there will be a big argument when I actually tell them because they don't want me to. I don't see myself as that bad in the grand scheme, there are plenty of people whose health is worse than mine who can't work either. What is worrying me is looking at the figures I'm not sure how I can fit enough hours in to earn enough money and I haven't started to work in childcare because I don't know how to.

I guess the extent to which this upsets you depends whether you would prefer to have the security of knowing that there was a good welfare state/ NHS to catch you if necessary with the risk that some people will abuse the system, or whether everyone should look after themselves and the absolute minimum should be done to help those who do need benefits in case people abuse the system.

I'm trying to find a link to Marcus Brigstock talking about the tax cake on the Now Show. I'll post it if I find it...

I agree with the op in some ways. People who are going through hard times for a while should be looked after until they can get back on their feet. I don't see why single parents have to stay at home until their children are 16. I went back to work when my youngest started school as things had been financially very, very tight and I couldn't expect my dh to continue to try to carry the household expenses by himself. I also had a friend at this time whose husband was living with her and earning 45k a year while getting his rent and council tax paid as she was declaring herself a single mum. There were two other families in her close of 10 houses who were living with partners who worked and claiming as single parents. Eventually she was shopped by one of the other families in her street but was only told that she had to come of benefits and he had got away with living scott free for more than three years and didn't have to pay anything back. This is the sort of thing that gets peoples backs up.

Tinkerbell - missed my earlier post, I am MORE than happy to pay taxes for people who are genuine careers (of the sick etc) OR who have a genuine reason themselves for staying at home - like yourself. Had PND, been there and done the thing, wouldn't want anything like that long term .

I would want to see MORE support for people such as yourself, with your very brave move behind docs back (hope it works out for you - crossed everything here for you ) even with support back to work, by making people such as myself (ie, had a baby, no real medical reasons for not working) get back into work quicker, rather than sitting around.

Have you looked at family tax credits? They can help a lot. Also how old are dcs - the childcare could be a lot less than you think etc. Good Luck!

Don't think there's any excuse for not working in my situation, once a child is school aged, but the system says yes. Lots of SAHPs on benefits and IMHO and IME this is just plain wrong. What does it tell the kids - if you're absolutely fine and just happen to be too stupid or careless to use contraception and then have a baby it's OK to just sit back and let everyone else pay for you...

More money should be available to those in what I consider genuine need, and possibly would be if it wasn't OK to be a SAHP on benefits. And I've been one, so feel vindicated in this view. One girl I knew when pg now has 4 babies with 4 different fathers and hasn't EVER worked, despite all the children being at school AND having no medical reason NOT to work. That's a lot of benefits stolen from the more deserving cases.

Agree there needs to be a safety net, but it is a bit wide open to taking the piss michael at the mo IMO.

LOL at bb99 pointing Tinkerbell to tax credits. There was a time when I was working 16 hours a week, when my wage was so low and the childcare costs so high, that the tax credits I got were more than my wages and were more money than I would have got if I had been on the dole.

It cost the tax payer more money to keep me working part time in the cash economy, than it would have done to keep me working full time at home looking after my children.

Why is one worth paying for and one not? Why is work in the cash economy always seen as more valuable to society than work at home? And which one does the OP bitterly resent more?

oh f'off Cleo. Maybe they are just better at saving their money than you.

OK, I see what you mean, it just looked like you meant anyone.

I have been looking at Tax Credits, it makes my head boggle to try and understand it, but I think I have the right figure. Tink is 20 months, she will get her free nursery place next July but if there are school holidays at nurseries it would mean next September. I'm annoyed that she came at the end of a school year because it means she will be a year behind on nursery, compared to my niece who is 3 September. This is all very new to me so I don't know what to think.