It's an in law one...

[inlawproblems]

First of all, I must start by saying that I love my PIL... 99% of the time.

DH has two brothers. One of them lives in the same town as us with his wife and children, and the other lives five hours away with his wife and child. We get on well with the one who lives five hours away but we haven't seen them for over a year due to the distance. They will be visiting next weekend and we are looking forward to seeing them.

Things aren't so great with my other BIL and his wife. His wife hasn't spoken to us for 18 months since our daughter was born, for a really stupid reason. He is backing his wife up but we don't think he really believes they are in the right. Before my daughter's birth we all got on well.

Literally everyone thinks they are being completely ridiculous and the thing they are upset about is utterly trivial. To avoid drip feeding, they are upset that we named our daughter a very common top 10 name which also happens to be their daughter's second middle name.

Anyway. We have invited the visiting BIL and his wife and child for Sunday lunch next weekend. We were also planning on inviting PIL.

When I mentioned this to FIL two weeks ago he said he was rather hoping that we would do something all together. I said that until BIL and SIL acknowledge how hurtful their behaviour has been and apologise to us, we don't want to have a relationship with them. FIL said they will never explain or apologise, and so I said in that case we won't be seeing them. He wants us to just let it go and play happy families. I made it very clear that doesn't work for us.

Today PIL came round for lunch and everything was normal, nobody mentioned next weekend. And then an hour or so after they'd gone home, MIL put a message on the family WhatsApp group saying they want us all to come round for cake next Saturday afternoon and Grandma will be there too.

We have not replied yet. We don't want to go. We feel that we are being strongarmed into seeing them and pretending everything is normal, when what we want is to have a discussion. (They have refused multiple requests from us to meet and talk.) PIL are banking on the fact that if we go next weekend we won't want to cause a scene in front of Grandma, or be unpleasant to SIL who is two months postpartum. (I wouldn't piss on her if she were on fire at this point but I recognise that the optics of having a go at a woman who's just had a baby in front of the entire family aren't great.) They're right about us not wanting to make a scene in those circumstances. That's why we don't want to go.

AIBU?

Thanks for reading if you made it to the end of this!

I think we will probably respond more along the lines of, "Sorry, we don't think it's a good idea given that there has been no change in the situation with BIL and SIL but we'll see you on Sunday as planned."

I wouldn't reply using the first few sentences, everyone knows the situation by now and it does make it sound like you're just looking for something to kick off.

As you see your PIL and other BIL/SIL more often, so not missing out there, I'd just reply that you have plans and as stated you'll look forward to seeing those 4 on Sunday.

While I can understand your PIL want the whole family together it's not something they should force upon you, they need to realise that they shouldn't get involved in other people's arguments and be seen to take sides, your PIL shouldn't be expecting you to apologise they could help by just ignoring and moving the conversation on if BIL/SIL happen to mention anything regarding the situation.

If you did go you can only control how you behave, you have no idea if your BIL/SIL will mention anything that may start a ruckus.

Your daughter is living, breathing and using the fking name!! She's going to use the name for potentially the next 100 years.

You've won!

If that's what you're looking for, you've won. Looking for an apology on top is just making a point. It's a point not worth making.

Go to family gatherings and use absolutely every opportunity to call DD's name if you want to feel some sense of victory.

But good Lord just let it go at that stage.

I sympathise with the two brothers stuck in the middle of this 🙄

As most people are saying OP just get over it and get on with your lives. If you continue you are heading towards causing a massive family rift, is that what you want, your PIL would be devastated, everyone upset. This isn’t all about you, although you seem unable to see that. You asked for advice and have been given it but you still seem determined to refuse to listen to reason.

Of course if we all went around thinking like that our species would die out within a generation.

Many many many ppl don't talk to their family and many many more do... I'm not sure what's that got to do with our species dying out but I'm sure we will survive 🤣

I feel so sorry for the PIL who’s sons have both married awful self centred women. They must be so disappointed. 😞

She wasn't going through anything at the time. She didn't have a young baby, she wasn't pregnant, her child wasn't unwell (that was later). She was just having a temper tantrum.

Really BIL should have explained that she was having a temper tantrum and apologised on her behalf rather than trying to shield her from the judgement of the wider family.

I say it again: I do not understand why some posters are being so hard on the OP. Or why she is being urged to attend a family event and 'be the bigger person' 'rise above' the SIL/BIL's behaviour and be polite and friendly. Fine advice: but what if they don't do the same and choose to escalate things? At a time when feelings are still raw?

The SIL may indeed have reasons for her grudge which make sense to her. But the fact that a position is rational does not make it reasonable. So she may well have her personal reasons for resenting the OP & DH appropriating the name...but still not worth falling out with family over.

A cousin of mine fell out with me for a long time because I commented on a mark on her new baby's neck. It turned out to be a birthmark and she said she was 'gutted' about me noticing it, complained to all & sundry about my tactlessness.

Yes it was tactless of me and wrong, it would have been much better if I hadn't mentioned it. But if I hadn't thought the mark really was tiny & trivial I wouldn't have mentioned it....I explained this, admitted I was tactless, apologised.....do you think it got me anywhere?

(Just for context: my only DC has severe disabilities and is wheelchair bound. So from my perspective her DC's 'flaw' really was trivial. I accept that was just my perspective and hers was different, but it would be nice if people could make as much effort to understand my perspective as I do to understand theirs and meet in the middle somewhere)

Anyway.....we never really made it up and it is 20 years ago now, we don't talk about it. She is a cousin rather than a sibling-IL so easier to avoid. We attend family events and are civil, but she is strictly a weddings-and-funerals only relative now.

Looks like there’s lots of hurt on both sides, either you can continue with this awful sad broken family or you can choose to try and make amends.

We have been trying to make amends for literally a year! They don't want to know so we've given up.

Gently, you are being very stubborn. Let go of the anger you have and turn a new leaf. It doesn’t mean them win. It means you don’t lose. People have disagreements. It’s better to get over it at this opportunity rather than dragging it on.

Honestly you will be happier in the long run if you go and it’s a bit awkward and then over time normality resumes.

The way you speak about their marriage is so disgusting. You have had a falling out with her, but why do you want their kids to grow up with their parents separated. You're so focused on the falling out you've lost all sense of any decent behaviour yourself.

You and your sister in law are not close. Neither of you would have known what was going on behind closed doors.

I think you should just drop it. It's not going to be resolved by you demanding an explanation and an apology and everything sounds so very petty. The longer that you drag it on, the pettier it sounds and the more fed up the whole family will be with the pair of you, you and your sister in law.

If you had a crystal ball and could see how rifts like this develop and fester, you'd (probably) put a stop to it from your side. Rifts can only continue where both parties want them to.

I feel sorry for your parents in law and also the wider family, it isn't great for anyone knowing that there's a huge but irrelevant elephant in the room caused and perpetuated by the two sister in laws. For your family's sake, from your side, drop it. Really just drop it. Come to terms with what happened and just put it out of your head as one of those things.

Really? If you were having a strop at home (we all have our moments) you would be perfectly ok with your husband going to his family and announcing it to everyone and apologise on your behalf.

So let him go to his family gathering with your DD and announce that you are just throwing a tantrum at home and he apologises on your behalf that you can't be a grown up

Really???????

I doubt it!

You clearly don't like her. She clearly doesn't like you. That's fine but don't ruin an entire family (that's not even your own!) because you two are incapable of being civil.

You should definitely stay home but encourage your husband to go with your DD. Allow him the space to heal with his family away from the toxic atmosphere the two women have created.

I do wonder exactly what the other sides story is and exactly what the PIL think as well

my view is that no one comes out of looking good at all and there is no relationship to actually recover - what everyone needs to do is be able to act like grown ups and be civil

Going through infertility and miscarriage is very tough OP. I have been through it too and I understand.
I went through a very similar situation in my family where sil had a baby before me as she got pregnant straight away while I was trying for 2 years. It was so hard for me at the time and I completely understand. Its hard not to feel resentful.
However its not their fault they did not suffer infertility. And even if you not agree it is understandable that she may have preferred you not to use one of her daughters names.
Unfortunately this is life and life can be tough.
But we have to move on, be mature, be grateful for what you do have. Go along, be civil, do not hold on to the resentment.

Why did you post here, OP? You’re clearly convinced you’re not BU, so what was it you were hoping for? Lots of people telling you how awful your SIL is?

TBH, it sounds like a massive overreaction on her part — and I can understand your hurt but I don’t think making it about winners and losers is particularly helpful. Whether you go or not is clearly up to you, but whatever you do, I don’t think they ‘win’ — on the contrary, I think you’ve all lost, particularly your (and their) DCs. It’s very sad. You sound more bitter than sad though. And perhaps I would be too, if I were in your shoes. But bitterness is rarely productive.

BIL has made his bed, he can lie in it. He has to live with her, not us.

He's the one who has made unkind comments about the state of our marriage by saying we clearly don't communicate with each other because I didn't tell my husband the message he thinks he communicated to me via telepathy about his children's bloody middle names. As if he thinks we didn't have a thousand more important things to talk about even if he had communicated anything to me, which he didn't.

You haven't given up. You are still holding out for an apology and holding the rest of the family to ransom unless you get it.

You mentioned earlier that the grandparents would love a photo of all their grandchildren together - yet you are denying them that.

I hope your own children don't marry such nasty vindictive people. Imagine wanting a family photo and having some randomer that just happens to be part of your family by chance of your child meeting them denying you that moment.

I think you need to take a look at yourself @inlawproblems . Look at the stand you are willing to take. The effect that your actions are having on those around you. Imagine yourself in that same situation in 30 years and then decide how long more you are willing to carry this on for.

You don't know what she might have been going through. You never know what someone is going through.
You have been so rude about your SIL on here. Your comments say much more about you than her tbh

I'm not saying it's their fault we experienced infertility. I'm saying that given that they now know we were having fertility problems when their son was born and we were there for them and celebrated with them as though nothing was wrong, you'd think they could wind their necks in over a middle name and just celebrate our baby's birth with us the way we celebrated their children's births with them.

How complimentary do you expect me to be about someone who has treated us like this when we had never been anything but nice to her?

"some randomer"

Hope you never have a DIL or SIL.

@inlawproblems sometimes it takes a third party (your inlaws) to be the bridge that brings everyone together, or at least closer.

Can't you see that this is what your PIL are trying to do?

Sounds like your BIL/SIL have been complete dickheads. They sound emotionally unintelligent.

Don't you see by you not turning up it will give the rest of the family ammunition to say it's you/ DH that don't want to make up?

Please OP look at the bigger picture here. We're not saying be bestfriends with them, we're saying just tolerate being in the same room as them for an hour or so and maybe things will build from there. And if they don't, then at least you have tried (and visibly tried in front of the family)

My children are teenagers. None of them are in relationships yet. So right now, yes, whoever they get into a relationship with potentially marry is some randomer! I don't know them. They don't know them.

And knowing that there is someone out there who none of us know, but who has the potential to tear our family apart like you and she are doing is quite frankly terrifying.

You hope I never have a DIL or SIL?

I hope you do! 😉

I hope I do too, and will never refer to them as "some randomer".