To actually feel sorry for the woman driving the car in the Wimbledon car accident

[bagpuss90]

I’m sure I’ll be flamed here . I totally sympathise with the bereaved parents- I can’t stress that enough. I can understand them wanting justice . As we know the driver of the car suffered an epileptic seizure at the wheel - she had no history of epilepsy. I don’t see what she could have done differently. She has to live with what she did although it wasn’t her fault. AIBU to feel quite sorry for her ?

Explain to me how saying there is an incentive for someone to do something illegal/immoral is ableist, when in fact we all probably have faced incentives to do something illegal and/or immoral at some point in our lives?

Observing an incentive to do something is not the same as saying that everyone will choose to do it, or even consider doing it.

Or perhaps the public policy consideration in this is to incentivise people to report fits. Most people will worry about the consequences of a seizure and be prepared to take part in a rational process that will allow them to drive once they have established a record of managing the condition / not being subject to repeat seizures, and therefore as safe (possibly safer) as the average person. However if the law was draconian and banned them from ever driving again, in the face of the evidence that it isn’t necessary, then they certainly would not have an incentive to report it. There is a reason that we have (mostly) evidence based rather than prejudiced based policy. Although the last government did have a penchant for the latter.

There have been numerous similar accidents over the years where I live. These accidents were caused by heart attacks, seizures, people stepping on the wrong pedal in automatic cars, etc. A wide variety of cars were involved.

The only factor making a difference in outcome for pedestrians (or people sitting at cafe tables outside, etc) was the speed of the vehicle. A light sedan going fast will mow down or drag a pedestrian. Car size isn't the issue here.

Whistleblowers don’t need to provide evidence. It is for the employer/organisation to prove that the whistleblowing was not truthful.

I believe both sources and whistleblowers are important in general. There were a lot of cases that had a big impact just by having the statement of a whistleblower. Like the recent postmasters scandal as one example.

And that's it, isn't it?

Fundamentally you hold the driver responsible for the tragic death of the girls, as far as you're concerned she killed them.

I, and others, clearly have a different point of view. My point of view, bearing in mind I've witnessed thousands of epileptic seizures, is that if she was effectively unconscious through no fault of her own then she cannot be held responsible or accountable for the deaths of the girls, i.e. she didn't kill them.

It's not down to the police to respond to ghouls on social media (including Mumsnet) when there's an inquest scheduled soon

That is the most ludicrous thing I’ve read. She did kill the girls - whether she was incapacitated or not. That is a fact. Let’s not try to rewrite history here. Unbelievable.

Here’s the A-Z list of things the DVLA considers might impact your driving and which you might need to notify them of. Presumably you’d advocate nobody with any of them ever being able to drive again, in case of a perverse incentive for people to conceal symptoms?:

www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving/find-condition-a-to-z

This thread would have gone a very different way if the driver was non white, male, or a lower socio ecomic class.

My friend who had a late onset sudden a seizure in the car was male. Dh was sat beside him as it happened. These things can happen to anyone at any age regardless of their sex, wealth or ethnicity.

Based on the article the families asked the question to the police and they didn’t reply to them. What does MN have to do with that article?

There seems to be a suggestion from the families and the school that they don't really believe the outcome of the enquiry.

I don't know why that is, but they must have their reasons, so a review seems appropriately

I also agree that vehicles like that don't belong on urban streets. That is a monster, even by SUV standards.

If you are relying on the MSM to uncover scandals like the Horizon one then you are sadly wrong. Alan Bates and the Subpostmasters had collected considerable and credible evidence of the unreliability of the Horizon system. Alan Bates himself was never taken to court because he kept extensive and auditable records of the accounting discrepancies he was accused of. Even though they had a credible story, with extensive evidence, and of course, were for the most part named sources, it was years before anyone outside Computer Weekly ran with the story, and then it was Private Eye. This was even after whistleblowers emerged from both Fujitsu and within the Post Office and the Post Office had been found guilty of wrongful convictions in court. There was ample evidence coming out from podcasts too but the MSM were only provoked into action by the TV programme and belatedly turned to the journalists who had covered it all along.

They still are not fully holding to account senior managers who are blatantly lying to the enquiry (to my certain knowledge eg that they didn’t know the POID the oldest police force in the world retained the power to prosecute and were to say the least the manifestation of Met Police’s cultural shortcomings unbridled). They have been called out for doing so by other Post Office Managers who have tried to throw them under the bus in their evidence to the enquiry. Again the full facts are emerging and the report from the Enquiry looks to be going to be thorough and exhaustive. However if justice is served, which I doubt, then it will have nothing to do with the mainstream press. It just isn’t emotive enough, apart from demonising Paula Vennells over equally culpable male managers, and too complex.

The size and power of the vehicle is entirely relevant here. A smaller, less powerful car may not have even breached the fence.

The same people making allegations about her being a car sales rep, having bought fake medical evidence, travelling back in time to give an interview about her bathroom, etc, etc, would have been posting about how it was clearly a terrorist incident that's being hushed up/murdering father deprived of access/rich bloke buying immunity/probably a diplomat/was drunk/posts on SM with a big car/had been seen bombing up and down the road/etc/etc/ad nauseum.

It breached iron railings and a fence, in fact completely demolished the iron railings which were the sort of safety railings outside most schools . The Coroner will no doubt need to address the issue of safety barriers outside schools in the public interest

Not the driver's fault, however, I wish drivers were motivated to buy vehicles that are safer for pedestrians. No one needs to drive a tank with "defender" in its name in Wimbledon. Like with dogs, some people love aggressive looking cars. However, their choices often have very sad consequences. Of course, this would very likely have happened with a smaller car, yet the numbers are indisputable: "Vehicles with hood heights of more than 40 inches and blunt front ends angled at greater than 65 degrees were 44% more likely to cause fatalities".

"Used every trick in the book"? You mean "defended herself against accusations from people who nothing about the details of the case but want secondhand vengeance?"

Are you saying that if you knew you were being accused of a crime you knew you hadn’t committed, you and your family wouldn't do everything you could to defend yourself?

Are you saying that because she is apparently wealthy, and drives a car you disapprove of, she shouldn’t be allowed to defend herself?

Not sure if anyone else has posted this a statement from the Epilepsy Society.

Nicola Swanborough27 June 2024
Epilepsy Society responds to news that driver of fatal car crash had an epileptic seizure
The Epilepsy Society has issued a response following the news that the driver who killed two eight-year-old girls in Wimbledon will not be charged as she had an epileptic seizure.
Woman not charged over girls' school crash deaths

Clare Pelham, Chief Executive at the Epilepsy Society, said: “This is one of the most heartbreaking and tragic consequences of an epileptic seizure and our hearts go out to the families and friends of the children who died and to all those who were injured, physically and mentally, in these distressing circumstances.

"We would never comment on anyone’s personal medical history and we are not aware of the circumstances that led to this tragedy. But we do know that epilepsy can be diagnosed at any stage of a person’s life and a first seizure may happen without warning. As many as one in 20 people will have a one-off epileptic seizure at some time in their life. It could happen to any one of us.

"People with epilepsy whose seizures are not controlled by medications must stop driving and surrender their driving licence. But this tragedy highlights an unimaginable consequence of potentially a first seizure with no warning. This distressing case underlines just how critical it is that more funds are invested in research that will enable us ultimately to better understand and treat the causes of epilepsy.”

@Daftasabroom - she did kill them, even if accidentally.

You clearly have an agenda. Own it.

@SouthernFashionista @MaturingCheeseball how did she kill them?

Agree with you. I get the parents are grieving but going for this woman is not the answer. It was just a horrible unfortunate accident

By driving into them? You can loose control of a car in different ways, having a seizure or for e.g looking into a phone. In both cases you kill people, it’s just in the first instance it’s an unforeseen accident and in the second instance it’s dangerous driving.

If she was not conscious she cannot have been driving the vehicle, tragically they died because she wasn't, or, because she stopped driving the vehicle.

@Daftasabroom
She did kill them. She didn't kill them with intent or murder them but she did kill them and she will no doubt suffer forever for it.

I think you are attributing killing with guilt and they aren't the same thing k

@Daftasabroom
If someone pushed you and you squashed someone you still squashed them even if it wasn't under your control or by your effort or your fault