I've just told my DS7 that he smells of wee.

[SoggyTrousers]

I am being unreasonable because it's a horribly mean thing to say.

But I don't know how to stop it or help him. He's neuro-divergent but perfectly capable of going to the toilet. He understands that if he smells then there's potential that people will be mean. He hates meanness and unkindness.

He comes home every day stinking of wee because he's wet himself rather than going to the toilet. I thought it was because he didn't like the noise or other children in there, so I arranged with staff that he could go during lesson and he says to them he doesn't need it.

He won't go at break times. He won't go in the single toilets or the communal toilets. He wets himself at home rather than go. I've tried sending him every half an hour or whatever and he refuses. It's a battle I'm tired of having.

I know it's an interoception thing, I know it's also probably a sensory thing, but I'm so worried that he's going to have the (for want of a better phrase) piss ripped out of him in nine weeks when he's in year three with the big kids and he smells. He's getting on for being 8, what the fuck do I do?

You had to tell him. It would be unkind not to.

Has he ever used the toilet successfully for wee?

I'd be worried about other factors.

What's the backstory?

Well how did he react when you told him? Can he explain why he won’t go at school?

I don't think it's unkind to tell he smells of wee if he does. It's just facts. If he's nd, I'd make sure to tell him the facts clearly and without judgement i.e. you smell bad because you've made the choice to go for a wee in your pants, if you smell bad other people won't want to be near you because the smell will make them feel sick.

If he's big into kindness etc. then I'd frame it as not being very kind to stink out the classroom with his wee, it would be much more considerate if he went in the toilet.

Sounds like he needs a heathcare plan put in place, if he hasn't got one already ie toilet breaks timetable. The school nurse can help with this. I feel for you, my daughter is also the same.

I can understand how stressful this must be feeling.

Is this definitely not having accidents rather than avoidance? Does he wet the bed? Can he feel an urge to go? Can he hold on? Also, is he constipated?

There are so many reasons for having accidents that might not be due to being ND. There are paeds continence nurse specialists that may be able to help, the GP could refer.

Also, the website ERIC is quite good for advice that is for children with bladder issues.

Do you think he’d be interested in the science going on inside his body? How urine is made, stored and released? Sometimes understanding the bodily system can help.

I think I would go further and say he needs to go back to pullups/nappies until he's capable of using the toilet.

Then make a GP appointment in case there's an underlying medical problem. Does he manage to be dry throughout the night? Or when at home during the weekend or during school holidays?

Does he have PDA? Toileting is often a major sticking point for PDA kids (along with washing, brushing teeth, handling periods for older girls etc)

In my experience at some point the social norms over take the demand avoidance in that area and they find some other way to manage the demand

(eg, will use the loo but not wash hands, or will wee in bottles in their room to avoid the demand of walking to the bathroom- basically anything to feel that they are in control of the demand their bladder is placing on them).

He's honestly completely capable, wees on the toilet now but was late and very resistant to potty training.

He gets up in the night from a deep sleep to go for a wee (since he was 3) and has only wet the bed a handful of times when he's been ill.

My neice was similar at age 7. It was partly an interoception thing and partly FOMO. Her school was really helpful and accommodating. She always had a change if clothes in her school bag and was allowed to leave the classroom to change whenever she needed to, which averted the issue of smelling. I'm not sure what was done in terms of cleaning up any puddles on the floor/chair though - if she did it, or the teacher..? 🤔
How would he respond to the suggestion I'd wearing a pull-up instead of underwear? Would it motivate him to use the toilet so he didn't have to wear something "for babies", or do you think he would go for it and it would just entrench the problem?

That's what I said "mate, you stink of wee and it's not nice. If you smell, nobody will want to sit next to you."

He's very anti germ, which is probably one reason why he hates the toilet so much as it's a source of "germs".

We're awaiting a diagnosis of which type of neuro-divergent he is, but it's generally agreed that he is ND.

I think there's probably PDA in there, he will argue (with me) about EVERYTHING. Literally everything. I'm exhausted. He holds it all in at school but as soon as he's out, there's nothing that's easy. No conversation where he doesn't argue the toss or interrupt. He's ready for end of term where he'll relax significantly but I am so, so drained.

Have you got a social story about weeing on the toilet? If his receptive understanding is good, they can be a powerful tool.

All the best op, it can be draining💐

Cross post op. Hope you're okay.

We over came alot of stubonness with tech ....

A watch that "vibrates" every half hour to remind him to think about if he needs a wee

Google alarms for morning checklist - wash, teeth brushing, deodorant, hair.. set reminders about special days etc..

Might be worth a go.

All of mine have ASD/ADHD I have told all of them they stink at least once.. highly recommend Dettol laundry sanitiser for pre wash and in machine :)

I told him he can go back in nappies if he keeps doing it and it was a huge source of genuine distress and upset. He doesn't like the feel of pull ups so he wouldn't put them on (or even if I wrestled him into them, which I wouldn't) he wouldn't keep one on and definitely not at school.

And he would feel he was being punished for something that is very very likely to be a symptom of his ND. That isn’t a good road to start down.

Could he have a small pack of disinfectant wipes to take to school in a mini pack (so pocket size and decanted from a large pack at home) that he keeps on him to wipe down seats etc? Would that help with the germ aspect?

would a video about how washing his hands properly after removes germs vs urine soaked clothes which are making his environment more germ ridden be of use?

I bought a book about the body (usborne, life the flap type) and he gagged and wretched (dramatically) and then started howling that it made him feek sick when I tried talking about the poo/wee/gastrointestinal stuff.

I've got him trained to go to the toilet at a certain time to poo so we can "manage" that together but he does on occasion hold it and can make himself constipated. But generally he is aware when he needs to go to the toilet for a sit down and will take himself off 😂

If he hates germs can you explain that the wee is clean inside him but once it leaves his body the wetness on his clothes makes it become germy? So actually if he wees in the toilet and washes his hands, he gets to touch a lot fewer germs and he can wash the ones on his hands away.

Sometimes with children you don't have to actually do anything, it's down to them believing you can.

Offer him a choice. Stink of wee and emphasise nobody will want to be near him, or wear nappies like a toddler, or be a big boy like his friends and use the toilet. What do you think he would choose?

EDIT - just seen his germ phobia - that's a GP route.

This is my feeling. I don't want him to feel worried or ashamed about something he can't help. But also feel that he needs to be open to being helped (sent to the toilet).

Just want to say I really appreciate everyone's input. I've felt really alone (and like a dreadful Mum) for not being able to fix this for him. ❤️

I found with my ND child that if I said “I wonder if you could sit on the loo, you don’t need to wee, just sit on it and you can have a Haribo” he would go and do a wee. We’d always have a laugh about how he had a wee even though he didn’t need one.

You cannot get into a battle with mine under any circumstances, every little request must be framed in a way to no illicit a no response.

If he’s anti germ then he needs to understand that sitting in your own urine is far more dirty and germ creating than using a toilet then washing his hands after.

maybe if you could look up some information so he learns it externally rather than it coming just from you which he seems to discount and actively decide the opposite.

It’s hard @SoggyTrousers but keep trying thing eventually something will click.

Does he sit down to wee? Is that easier for him? You're doing the best you can.