I've just told my DS7 that he smells of wee.

[SoggyTrousers]

I am being unreasonable because it's a horribly mean thing to say.

But I don't know how to stop it or help him. He's neuro-divergent but perfectly capable of going to the toilet. He understands that if he smells then there's potential that people will be mean. He hates meanness and unkindness.

He comes home every day stinking of wee because he's wet himself rather than going to the toilet. I thought it was because he didn't like the noise or other children in there, so I arranged with staff that he could go during lesson and he says to them he doesn't need it.

He won't go at break times. He won't go in the single toilets or the communal toilets. He wets himself at home rather than go. I've tried sending him every half an hour or whatever and he refuses. It's a battle I'm tired of having.

I know it's an interoception thing, I know it's also probably a sensory thing, but I'm so worried that he's going to have the (for want of a better phrase) piss ripped out of him in nine weeks when he's in year three with the big kids and he smells. He's getting on for being 8, what the fuck do I do?

I've spoken to school staff in year one and year two, we have a good relationship. He's been told he's allowed to ask/go during lessons. They've tried to send him "SoggyDs, Do you need to go to the toilet?" And he says he doesn't. They can't force him to go and it's the remembering. His class has a huge need level. Over a third have additional needs, he ranks fairly low on the scale of need.

But I do think that it possibly part of it. He's very rule oriented at school. And once he's decided something, there's no changing his mind.

I wish. I don't think he's even aware. I've tried making him go as he enters the building, but then it's basically down to him all day. I think he holds it so much that there's always drips, then more is being let out as his bladder gets more full.

If he's rule - oriented could his teacher create a rule that DS must go to the toilet at X and Y time?

One if my dc was a bedwetter but also ND. He liked cloth incontinence pants as they didn't crinkle like pull ups and they look like pants.
Have a quick Google, cheeky wipes do incontinence pants. They won't hold a full bladder but could help.

My full sympathies. Our lb was like this at 7. Still moments at 8. He's 9 now and fine. We had to buy all new sofas however...

Yeah, twice a day would probably do it? But maybe that’s too simple a solution if he’s in the habit of just not going.

My ds who has asd was scared of the toilet at that age! Especially of flushing it, he thought he would get sucked down it!

The teachers need to tell him to go sit on the loo for two minutes regardless if he needs it or not. Make it routine.

Try the same approach at home. ‘First sit on the loo for two minutes, then it’s snack time’. Do it wether he thinks he needs to loo or not.

Lo was like this, not at school but at home, wouldn’t use the toilet for pee, I was changing his clothes around 4-5 times a day and he wet the bed every night. Refused to wear pull-ups. He has ASD. The doctor told me to do a reward chart, tell him if he stayed dry for one week he’d get a toy at the end of the week. He was around 8 at this time. I never thought it would work, especially considering how much he was wetting himself but he stayed dry that entire week. Things got much better from there, although he still had accidents, especially during the night, but nowhere near the 4-5 times a day he was previously doing. Might be worth a try. I feel your pain, it is such a hard thing to deal with. He’s 11 now and hasn’t had any accidents at all in about a year.

You were right to be honest with him. Smelling is very antisocial and no one will want to play with him or sit near him. I would just air him every hour and make him go. More tricky at school as they don't have the time or the staff to enforce it

Hi OP

I have a PDA child and toileting was a huge source of stress for him. We landed on saying "Have a think about going to the loo" when he was showing signs that he needed to go (wriggling, fidgeting etc) It doesn't put pressure on him, is an indirect way of mentioning it to him.

Within a minute he'll usually say "oh I need a wee!" as if it was his idea and off he goes. Might be worth a try! We also talked to him about all the signs that his body is sending him that means he needs a wee.

Eric website has lots of advice, and you can cotnsct them direct as well.

No idea exactly why this happens but we had exactly the same with the added bonus that our son was also in night pull ups until around 9! He just didn't wake up. Wet himself in school sometimes until around your boys age too. Hes ND and also very late potty trainer. In our family though we always took a more - not relaxed, but realistic approach - that it was genetic as we already knew his dad and grandad both wet themselves until 12!! Noone knows why. No problems after, both exceptionally successful men in adult life. GP said it was unusual but genetic too.

Just posting for solidarity really, it does get better! My son is sociable, confident, clean, hygienic, etc now.

I work in a secondary school. One of our boys (autistic) in Year 8 has these issues. We were informed in advance by his primary school. He often does smell of wee and struggles with peer relationships
I'm sure you'll get it sorted by high school though!
Good luck - it's not easy, I know
Oh, and as his parent, you absolutely HAD to tell him. YANBU.

My 6 year of nd son refuses to use the toilet so he's still in pull ups as he would also wet himself rather than use a loo. Get referred to school health about your sons toilet habits

I agree with this.

I would seek medical advice about both the wetting and the germ phobia but in the meantime whilst wait for appointment would start also work on the anti-germ aspect as best as you can. Unfortunately, these covid kids at a critical point of their development as toddlers got taught to be really fearful of germs and touching anything communal that was far beyond the usual "fgs, please don't actually lick the toilet seat in the shopping mall" that previous generations had. He may need a bit of re-educating about germs and how we keep ourselves safe.

Do the soap experiment where you have a dish of water with pepper in and then dip a soapy finger in and can see how washing his hands with soap after will make all the germs run away. Explain that if we wash our hands after using the loo and before we eat or put our hands in our mouths, less germs can get in.

If sits to wee, teach him to put toilet paper on seat. Could even send him with antibacterial wipes for the seat and his own loo roll/a little packet of tissues so has his own loo roll substitute if that would help. Give him an antibac so if there isn't soap he can still make the germs run away.

I would use the summer to actually really push him going and using public toilets when you are out. He needs to learn that however yuck the loos are, if you need to go you need to go and then you wash your hands. And most public loos will be worse than the school ones.

If he stands to wee, maybe see if it can be a game - put in a little piece of the toilet paper in the loo first and then you have to aim at it maybe.... anything you can think of to make it more attractive to stop what you're doing and go to the loo rather than wet yourself without having to resort to a bribery-per-wee type incentive that won't be readily available at school.

Work with him to have a routine when he goes back to school, so the first thing he does at school break time is go to the loo, whether he thinks he needs to go or not. At lunch break, go at the start and the end of lunch.

Get a GP appointment and and ask for him to be referred to the bowel and bladder nurse, they can check if he has a physical issue and offer strategies to help

He might also just need to grow out of it like our son , his dad and his grandpa did! There's sometimes a risk of over medicalising these things. Our son was just suddenly fine one day and that was that. It just took his body longer than other people's to get to the point that other kids reach much earlier (which can sometimes be related to having a ND). He's doing great in school and life in general, it was just one of those weird things. We are just all different. OP I know it's hard though, I remember those days!

I'm autistic and prefer a wild wee; could he wee in the garden? Not joking. I'm not sure about school, though. Public toilets are grim for autists.

OP, I can’t help with the overall picture as I have younger kids, but have you thought about getting him something like this to wear instead of nappies? They aren’t as absorbent as nappies, but are much more absorbent than general undies and feel more like boxers, albeit a bit bulkier. You could pack him a spare pare and he could change at break if they have filled up

https://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/snazzi-pants-night-training-pants-medium-boy-pop-art/35641509?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjws560BhCuARIsAHMqE0FnlJv3GEIVLuFIFW8AgqPVQlSQDmOcz-G-ipB6r8Uw8FuR4QZNhY4aAlm_EALw_wcB

These are from an nz company but I’m sure there is similar in the uk

Praise him, reward him and reinforce good behaviour when he does go for a wee. You may have to start small, rewarding him for sitting on the toilet or going into the bathroom. Maybe play some games in the bathroom or stories while sitting on the toilet etc. to start him associating going to the toilet with something nice.

I’ve taught a few children over the years who absolutely hated the school toilets for one reason or another. We always toileted the class before break and before lunch but for the few who hated the toilets they were sent 15 minutes before everyone else with a TA to wait outside. One child would only use a specific hand gel so used to take that with him as he loved the smell of it. Would something like this work? I’ve also had one child who flat out refused to use the toilets and had accidents every day, his mum sent in a fresh change of clothes and he got changed each lunchtime. It was no biggie to pop his soiled clothing in a bag and send it home at the end of the day. Although I understand depending on the school this might not be possible. You’ve probably already done this but have you had your DS to see his GP?

I think it's better for you to tell him than getting bullied at school and being known as the boy who smells of wee,

That's ridiculous. My DD is Y5 and nobody calls us in except for the one time she actually had a stomach upset.

We had similar and it was a grim phase (but it was a phase). Mine used to release just a little bit of wee to take the urgency from.their bladder.

I think I used to make him change his underwear and trousers (shower if really stale and whiffy) and put it in washing machine. I would be silent after my initial instructions.

We also used rewards for going to the loo, having a dry pants in the morning/ afternoon/day. My DS loved rewards so that motivated him.

I was also.told to avoid blackcurrent/red berry drinks as it irritates the bladder.

The ERIC site as previously mentioned is useful to read, even if just to stop you feeling alone.