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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Voting in an hour - tell me why I shouldn’t vote reform

379 replies

Wentie · 04/07/2024 08:43

This isn’t a wind up. I’ve done countless different quiz type things and the policies I most align to come out strongly reform. I would previously have been a Tory voter. I don’t like farage and I do feel prejudiced against reform from what is portrayed in the media - but their policies appeal to me. Anyone have any actual facts or glaring holes that I might have missed?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
SiobhanSharpe · 04/07/2024 10:33

Voting in an hour - tell me why I shouldn’t vote reform

I will do no such thing. Make your decision and own it.

ellenfan · 04/07/2024 10:33

PrincessOlga · 04/07/2024 10:20

"I would previously have been a Tory voter. I don’t like farage and I do feel prejudiced against reform from what is portrayed in the media - but their policies appeal to me."

Maybe put a cross against Reform, but subtly "spoil" your ballot paper. So all the agents have to see the paper to "agree" that it has been spoilt. That way the Tory will see they have lost a natural voter and you can have a "clear" conscience by voting for a party which aligns with your views, but at the same time not actually voting for them because you don't like Farage (maybe write that on your paper?).

Do not do this! A paper which is 'subtly' spoiled will very likely still count for the candidate, if you have made some sort of indication that you support them.

If you draw a giant cross across the whole ballot paper, then that would count as absolutely spoiled.

A tick rather than a cross against a particular candidate is technically-spoiled, but would generally be accepted, I think - the other candidates would accept this.

Don't play around with this. There are other - more appropriate - ways of expressing political discontent!

Gymrabbit · 04/07/2024 10:33

Silviasilvertoes · 04/07/2024 10:28

Things like this? Even overlooking everything else anyone has said?

https://x.com/GBGreatAgain/status/1808443912123560012

Edited to add link.

Edited

The irony of this one is that the story that they stole the picture from is a Reform party dream. (Immigrants with poor English causr old lady’s death) And yet they focused on lies instead again showing their lack of intelligence.

alldayeveryday247 · 04/07/2024 10:34

bearing in mind, not beating in mind, that should have said obviously.

IfImOnFire · 04/07/2024 10:34

alldayeveryday247 · 04/07/2024 10:33

So far nobody who is voting for Reform has come back to me on the comments made, by a standing Reform candidate, about women.

Here they are again. Can someone voting Reform (a party with just 16% female candidates) share their thoughts on how they're comfortable voting in a party that doesn't kick out someone who believes and publicly says the
below?

Beating in mind him not being kicked out means that Reform wants him to be able to sit in parliament and vote on policies including those specifically about the rights of women and girls.

His comments:

"Do you (women) think you could actually work and pay for it all too like good citizens?

"Men pay 80% of tax – women spend 80% of tax revenue. On aggregate as a group you only take from society.
"Less complaining please from the 'sponging gender'."

He added that women are "subsidised by men to merely breath (sic)".
In January 2022 he posted: "Men pay 80% of tax. Women take out 80% of expenditures.

"Square that inequality first by depriving women of healthcare until their life expectancies are the same as men, Fair’s fair."

In December 2021 he wrote female soldiers "almost made me wretch (sic)" and were a "total liability".'

You will never get an answer but thank you for reposting.

BorgQueen · 04/07/2024 10:34

Lokipokey1 · 04/07/2024 10:29

What about the ones under Oswald Mosley in the uk?

You’ve just answered your own question 😉

MyNameIsFine · 04/07/2024 10:34

The thing is OP, it's a bit more complicated than whether you like their policies. You have to look at who they are, they're track record of behaviour, what you think they'd do if they got into power. Same with any other party.

Wentie · 04/07/2024 10:36

Sorry I genuinely have never had as many replies on a thread before! Was trying to get the kids to school so didn’t get a chance to read properly.

I didn’t vote reform. I think what swayed me in the end is just that I have never liked or trusted farage. I guess I just feel quite politically adrift from pretty much al of the parties.

OP posts:
Silviasilvertoes · 04/07/2024 10:37

Gymrabbit · 04/07/2024 10:33

The irony of this one is that the story that they stole the picture from is a Reform party dream. (Immigrants with poor English causr old lady’s death) And yet they focused on lies instead again showing their lack of intelligence.

I’d missed that, but yes, it’s painful, isn’t it?

PrincessOlga · 04/07/2024 10:37

The main thing is that you are happy with your own choice.

Voting should be a positive thing. That is why I (personally) do not agree with tactical voting.

Aubaslice · 04/07/2024 10:38

If you're voting for them for their policies then it's a wasted vote because their policies are undeliverable. Farage has admitted as much, conceding it's a manifesto or "contract" based on not winning.

Reform's policies lack any substance and are not based in reality. How do they deal with the economic shocks of reducing net migration to zero? How do they even feasibly enact it? How will they deal with the devastation that would cause to care and health services amongst many others? When scrutinised, Farage obfuscates.

Hagr1d · 04/07/2024 10:38

Wentie · 04/07/2024 10:36

Sorry I genuinely have never had as many replies on a thread before! Was trying to get the kids to school so didn’t get a chance to read properly.

I didn’t vote reform. I think what swayed me in the end is just that I have never liked or trusted farage. I guess I just feel quite politically adrift from pretty much al of the parties.

Out of curiosity, who did you for in the end?

Wentie · 04/07/2024 10:38

Genuinely trying to read all the replies now but there are obviously a lot. Privatisation of the nhs was actually one of the main reasons I wanted to vote for them. I think it’s beyond repair and a free at the point of access service will never meet current demand. I do work in the nhs.

OP posts:
Aubaslice · 04/07/2024 10:39

PrincessOlga · 04/07/2024 10:37

The main thing is that you are happy with your own choice.

Voting should be a positive thing. That is why I (personally) do not agree with tactical voting.

If our voting system was truly democratic, tactical voting wouldn't exist. Tactical voting is the result of an undemocratic system.

Silviasilvertoes · 04/07/2024 10:45

Aubaslice · 04/07/2024 10:39

If our voting system was truly democratic, tactical voting wouldn't exist. Tactical voting is the result of an undemocratic system.

Absolutely this.

Paisleydad · 04/07/2024 10:46

Thank you.

(And BTW, I've just come way from the fracture clinic at my local hospital. Superb. Quick. Efficient. Helpful).

CurlewKate · 04/07/2024 10:47

@Poiua "I just think migrants to this country as a basic requirement should respect British values and do their best to integrate."

What do you mean by British values?

DanielGault · 04/07/2024 10:47

TerrysNeapolitan · 04/07/2024 10:28

It is a free country to vote for who you wish OP, ignore the abuse that the keyboard warriors dish out here, I will be voting reform this morning, I am an adult and whatever party people wish to vote for even if I do not agree, I will not be throwing insults online as I am a fully grown adult. Have a great day everyone.

OP came on and invited opinions? Because she seemingly couldn't be arsed to research them herself, but whatever. She can vote for whomever she likes, but no point starting a thread if you don't want to hear dissenting views 🤔

alldayeveryday247 · 04/07/2024 10:49

@TerrysNeapolitan

By post is measured and not an attack but nobody who is voting for Reform has come back to me on the comments made, by a standing Reform candidate, about women.

Here they are again. Can someone voting Reform (a party with just 16% female candidates) share their thoughts on how they're comfortable voting in a party that doesn't kick out someone who believes and publicly says the below?

Bearing in mind him not being kicked out means that Reform wants him to be able to sit in parliament and vote on policies including those specifically about the rights of women and girls.

His comments:

"Do you (women) think you could actually work and pay for it all too like good citizens?

"Men pay 80% of tax – women spend 80% of tax revenue. On aggregate as a group you only take from society.
"Less complaining please from the 'sponging gender'."

He added that women are "subsidised by men to merely breath (sic)".
In January 2022 he posted: "Men pay 80% of tax. Women take out 80% of expenditures.

"Square that inequality first by depriving women of healthcare until their life expectancies are the same as men, Fair’s fair."

In December 2021 he wrote female soldiers "almost made me wretch (sic)" and were a "total liability".'

MsJinks · 04/07/2024 10:49

Trouble with Farage running privatisation of NHS is that he would go with the US model - he’s friends with the guys who have a vested interest in getting new insurance clients. I know he talks of EU models but he talked of Norway type brexits. He hasn’t got a track record of honesty, but has of looking to make some cash.
For me Tories were the last party I wanted to manage Brexit - the worst imo to do so because of their policies, keenness to provide more for the richer, and the rise of their corruptible natures becoming clear. To me brexit was bad but became more awful knowing Tories would handle it - I’m not actually adverse to a new model health service, though it needs lots of discussion, but would be very, very upset and worried at knowing Farage was going to manage the transition.

AnchorWHAT · 04/07/2024 10:50

AstonMartha · 04/07/2024 08:47

They are racist, sexist, homophobic wankers.

This!

TwigletsAndRadishes · 04/07/2024 10:50

I wanted to reply quoting another poster who said something offensive and defamatory about Reform and the people who are thinking of voting for them, but it's since been deleted. However, I am going to reply as if that comment were still there, but without quoting it.

There is nothing in the Reform manifesto that would qualify it as a 'far right' or fascist party. There have been very highly educated and knowledgeable experts in politics on MN and elsewhere in the media who have openly said so, in spite of not being Reform supporters themselves.

Ignore posters like this. (the one whose post has been deleted.) Ignore the insults and the increasingly hysterical shreiking of people on the left. It was exactly the same during the Brexit referendum. These people truly believe that you are too thick, too working class, too 'gammon.' too racist, too uneducated and too gullible to be allowed into the ballot box armed with an opinion of your own, or a vision for the future of the country you'd like to see.

These people do not actually believe in democracy. They think democracy is only for clever people like them. Not for the likes of us 'thick as mince' knuckle dragging types. They resort to insults, smears and negative stereotyping of all Tories, and especially all Reform or Leave voters based on the antics of an unpleasant minority.

For evidence of this look at the thread entitled 'Why aren't Reform Voters ashamed?' followed by the OP that simply says:

They don't seem to care that everyone will know they're racists. It seems incredible to me that people are open about voting for them.

That's aimed at you. That person wants to make you feel stupid and to doubt your own ability to think for yourself. They want to make you fearful of exercising your right to an opinion on how the country should move forward. 'Everyone' apparently, will know you are a racist. Everyone. Your card will be marked if you dare admit to voting Reform. You risk being metaphorically strung up by all the socially acceptable people who will deplore you. How dare you show your face?

See what they are doing?

Very little attempt is ever made by a certain cohort of people on the 'progressive left' at proper, civilised discourse and debate with those of us who lean right of centre. The MO of these people is merely to frighten, shame, mock, belittle, insult, sneer, and attempt to embarrass you, rather than address and debate the reasons why you might want to vote Reform, or why you might have wanted to vote for Brexit. As far as they are concerned there are only two possible reasons. The first is that are racist and the second is that you are thick. At best they might admit that you a probably a nice, but simple minded person who has been sucked in by 'lies'. End of discussion.

Virtually every thread on Reform or on Brexit is/was the same. It certainly shows us all (and there are many millions of us) where we stand, doesn't it?

Vote for the stuff that makes most sense to you. Vote for what you believe in. Vote with your gut. Listen carefully to what all the politicians say, and ask yourself if they've promised similar in the past but delivered the opposite. Look at the state of the economy each time a Labour government has left office. Look at the state of the NHS in Wales, which even more dire than in England, in spite of being run by the devolved Welsh Labour government. Ask yourself why we can expect anything better from an overall Labour government.

Listen equally closely at what the politicians don't say, when they are asked difficult questions. Pick apart their answers to expose the vague, fudged, avoidant and the incomplete.

If you've been disappointed at the way immigration has soared under the Conservatives post-Brexit, then ask yourself why in god's name it's likely to be any better under Labour? If you've been disappointed with taxation under the Tories, why will it be any better under Labour? If you've been disappointed at the squandering of opportunities to make the best of Brexit under the Tories, why will it be better under Labour? If you think the benefits system has become bloated, skewed and nonsensical under the Tories, why will it be any better under Labour?

For example when Keir Starmer says he won't increase tax for 'working people' what he means is, he won't increase income tax. (at least not immediately, until he can come up with some excuse for why he's had no choice but to change his mind.) But he will most certainly tax most of us somehow. Council tax will certainly go up. VAT might. Pension pot tax will definitely increase. Stamp duty and capital gains tax and inheritance tax, probably business rates etc, will all quite likely go up. Immigration, both legal and illegal will go up.

He won't rejoin the EU but what he will do is do deals with the EU that quite likely mean we will end up with some version of Freedom of Movement all over again, or increased alignment with EU directives but without any of the previous benefits that came attached to that. And that will be while the EU is falling apart at the seams and all the other original member countries are at an all time high dissatisfaction level with it.

Countries are starting to patrol their own borders within the EU again. They are starting to realise that a constant supply of cheaper foreign imports and cheaper foreign labour is more damaging than it is useful. The EU is doomed, at least in its current form. The world has changed and stronger borders are more important than at any time in history. If we couldn't trust the Tories to get a grip of our borders then how on earth could we possibly trust Labour?

Learn to understand the difference between what politicians say and what they really mean. train yourself to understand the subtext. Take absolutely NOTHING at face value. Especially when they say they won't do something, because they know it will be unpopular. They are very clever at using smoke and mirrors semantics to make you believe they will do, or not do a particular thing, when their intention is the opposite. They are very skillful at wording things in a way that covers their arses and lulls the electorate into a false sense of security on certain things.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 04/07/2024 10:51

The mere sight of Farage makes me feel ill.

VaccineSticker · 04/07/2024 10:52

Farage- the face of Brexit, who made everyone believe that Brexit is the best thing the Uk could ever wish. Look at the state of the place.
Vote for monkeys you get peanuts.

ButterCrackers · 04/07/2024 10:52

It’s good to get opinions but go with your own informed view. Would you want them to be the next government? What are your main policy issues and what do the political parties have to say on these.