Voting in an hour - tell me why I shouldn’t vote reform

[Wentie]

This isn’t a wind up. I’ve done countless different quiz type things and the policies I most align to come out strongly reform. I would previously have been a Tory voter. I don’t like farage and I do feel prejudiced against reform from what is portrayed in the media - but their policies appeal to me. Anyone have any actual facts or glaring holes that I might have missed?

Then you will know that many parts of the nhs are already subcontracted and lead to massive issues. One example is medical transport which does not arrive on time and leads to missed appointments (while still being charged to the trust) yes Reform now suggest people pay for missed appointments.
I don’t feel that American system is a massive improvement on the NHS. I don’t want to be cut out of the car and rushed to the hospital and then face 20k bill because I failed to agree approved ambulance with my insurance provider due to being unconscious.

@Wentie are you aware that Reform are planning to scrap all Net Zero targets? They want to increase shale gas mining and cut all incentives around renewable energy. They want to entirely reverse the small amount of progress the uk has made towards sustainable energy practices and not destroying the planet. Is that something you support?

They want to reduce the number of university places. They don’t have any policies on support for children with SEN, no policy on minimum wage or mental health support in schools. They have no policies on a lot of subjects because they haven’t taken the time to properly develop where they stand on so many important topics. As such any vote for them is giving free rein to do whatever they want on the topics they’ve not given a stance on, how can you vote for them without knowing these things?

I do wonder what aspects of their scant policies you do agree with because I can’t see any positives in what they claim to stand for.

Give it a rest 😂 these comments don’t bother me.

Privatisation of the NHS under reform would be horrific as the most likely model is that of the US - which costs much more than other systems ( 15% us, cf 12% in most of Europe and under 10% in the uk ) if you can afford it which many can't - so more expensive , less good care (( even for those who can afford it apparently)

what's not to love

many health systems exist which are operated in different ways to ours and manage charges differently but are less right wing in approach and I don't see why we shouldn't talk about them but that's not what reform offers

I'd be happier with a 12% European model than a more expensive less effective US model but I am pretty sure it's full private low red tape ( deregulated) that reform stands for so that's a hard no

Things need to change but You need to chose a change for the better not a change for the worse

Reform to me are change for the worse

Devil in the detail

Stop saying that like it’s a bad thing. I can give you ten murdering scum bags that deserve to die for what they did to children off the top of my head. You seriously think Ian Huntley deserved to live for what he did to those two girls? If you do there’s something seriously wrong with you

It’s 10.55 on voting day and me, my DH and my first time voting DC are still not decided on who to vote for.

DH’s choices are Reform or Independent candidate whereas he has always voted Con before.

I am unsure. I won’t vote Con, Labour, Green or Independent so that leaves LibDem and Reform.

Reform would be a protest vote and if lots of people vote for them they will send the shitters up Labour not to be a bunch of smug b’stards who think they’ve won, but haven’t actually. The others just scored own goals and let them win. A large number of Reform votes will also make droves of Con MP’s jump ship to Reform and tone it down by having more candidates to choose from, meaning the stupid ones can be kicked out. Things need to change, and this is the only way I can see to contribute to a massive change here in the UK.

LibDem - this would be a tactical vote to kick out my Con MP who is a smug and arrogant woman who never shows her face here. Not sure if this vote will make a difference though, as Labour are our no.2 here I believe, but there is no way I am enabling Labour.

Not sure. I may have to toss a coin.

@DazedNotConfused1

Give it a rest 😂 these comments don’t bother me.

Thanks for at least coming back to me.

I'm shocked that a sitting candidate, supported by his party, saying that women are 'subsidised to merely breathe', are spongers and should have their health rights removed until their life expectancy is the same as men doesn't bother you. And who says women don't pull their weight but also says female soldiers make them 'retch'.

Especially strange to support a party that endorsed that candidate (by not kicking them out) if you're a woman.

Each to their own I guess.

The main problem I see with these voters is that they fail to grasp what party politics is in a democracy. Especially low information, single issue voters.

Your government has to run an enormous organization, raise and spend taxes responsibly, further the welfare of all the people in the country that it defines as significant, restrain
the excesses of capitalism, run the NHS, protect the borders etc…

Parties produce party platforms that are meant to serve as public statements and blueprints for what the party will do in power. But there are what you might call too lines snd bottom lines. Top lines are voter grabbing promises “make America great again!” Or “ more money for the NHS” they appear simple, heartfelt, exciting. The bottom line is often quite different: looting the treasury, selling peerages, corruptly benefiting from insider trading, narrowing the suffrage by discouraging people from voting, creating a new class of enemies within and without yo distract the voters from regular good government.

The entire trans fuss in the UK was a basic form of sucker bet, like the “free” first bets casinos and gamblers give the rubes or the free first taste of drugs. If you enter the tent marked with “exciting offer tailored exactly to your tastes” you often find yourself agreeing to vote for a whole lot of other policies you don’t like that brought other voters into the tent.

You have to ask yourself whether a passionate belief in X, whatever X is, means you also want to see Y, Z, and lots of other policies put in place. Whether getting women only bathrooms is such a great idea when you’ve voted in an Andrew Tate fan to run the schools and advocate for ending women’s suffrage.

That’s what I mean by top line and bottom line. Beware the easy appeal to the voters “we can easily do this thing for you” as long as you look away while we loot the treasury, or deport immigrants, or destroy the economy .

Go ahead.

I think if you want to vote Reform, knock yourself out. They will likely get one or two MP's. Once there, they will have to do a job. Chances are, they won't. Farage won't bother standing up in Parliament to talk about some local Clacton issue one of his constituents has moaned about. More than likely the people of Clacton will be virtually unrepresented for 5 years unless their only problem is immigration. He is the Rights equivalent to George Galloway.

Well it works to change things.
Why do you think Brexit happened?
Because David stole an idea, that he could see was actually quiet popular.
Also Gay marriage another stolen idea, which by the way was ling overdue.
Trouble is sometimes a stolen idea comes true.

I haven’t applied here but I have recently for a passport to another country and I had to confirm I would adhere to their country’s values. Which were listed.

Because the solutions they propose won’t work.

Well, because they are hard-right. Farage supports Trump and would consider working for him. He is strongly opposed to both immigration and combatting climate change- despite the fact that climate change will lead to absolutely massive immigration, when many countries become essentially unliveable. He has spoken sympathetically of Andrew Tate and his horrible misogynist views,

alldayeveryday247

I’d rather listen to some mouthy bigot whose faculties are a bit doolally than what will come after this election.

Have you wondered why the trans community has been very quiet lately? That’s because they are too busy getting their statements and tweets ready to press send on 05 July 0800 when they will be emboldened by a Labour win which gives them the Green light to double down on running roughshod over women’s rights.

When they do, who is going to stop them? Kier Starmer and his party won’t. In fact they will enable them.

So, out of the two - Reform or Labour - who is more threatening for me as a woman?

This, and also fecking incompetent.
Also their entire image is based on attacking minorities, and they quote loads of false statistics to make promises they can't keep. Is that really a group of people you think would give a shit about you or would be in any way capable of running a country?

Isn't farage the one who complained that his ideas were ignored in the EU Parliament when he never turned up to present his views ?

My mum's in a similar position to you. Ideologically, she fits with Reform, but agrees (with me) that Nigel Farage is a work-shy narcissistic w*r who's unlikely to show up in parliament.

I sent her a bunch of manifestos to look at. Not sure what she'll choose to do in the end, but she's in a Lib Dem/Tory marginal and I said she had a choice of making a pro-Reform protest vote or voting Lib Dem to remove the Tory MP (who didn't even bother to reply to a letter she sent about a constituency issue).

And this is why critical thinking should be on the core curriculum for all UK schools.

Reform because they are misogynists who hate all minorities.

Right! All this “persuade me “ shit is so tedious. Your conservative dh is fash curious—not surprising, is it? The Right wing tends towards fascism because its reactionary goals slign with fascism—thats why farage explicitly stated he eould have opposed fighting Hitler.

If those are the policies your dh favours let him vote for Reform. No one will stop him. But don’t pretend that it is just done so the “good/polite” conservatives join reform and somehow water it down enough to make it a soupcon less vile.

The Republicans in the US have not survived their takeover by Trump and the regular Germans didn’t control Hitler. Be very careful when you gaze into an abyss—for the abyss gazes back at you.

@alldayeveryday247 sorry I am trying to work through the posts but there are a lot and I’m out today.

I actually didn’t know that had been said, so thank you for sharing. I didn’t vote reform in the end.

You can vote reform if it is what you believe. If the last 6 weeks of campaigning has lead you to that you should do it. I couldn't vote for a party that thinks sending refugees to Rwanda is a bit to left wing for them.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/12/nigel-farage-eu-salary-docked-claim-misspent-public-funds

When Farage was an MEP he had one of the worst attendance records in the European Parliament and was accused of misspending EU Funds. So I suspect he would make BoJo look like he took his role as an MP and PM seriously.

I agree with this. The nhs is broken imo