To be at my wit's end with DS's table manners.

[LittlePearDrop]

DS is 11, nearly 12.

His table manners are atrocious. He has to be constantly prompted to use a knife and fork, otherwise he just uses his hands.

He drops food everywhere.

He wipes his hands on his clothes.

He chews with his mouth open.

He shovels food into his mouth as though he were starving when he absolutely is not.

If it's something like a sandwich, he can't just take a bite like a normal civilized human being. He has to pull chunks off to shove into his mouth, creating more crumbs.

We eat all meals together when at home. So it's not like he doesn't have role models. I am CONSTANTLY correcting him, every bloody meal time, and yet nothing changes. I've tried praising the good, I've tried threatening no pudding as a consequence and whilst that works in the short term, it's back to the same habits next meal time. I make him clean up his own mess.

His younger sister doesn't have any of these habits. He isn't neuro diverse. He is incredibly lazy and will always opt for the easiest route to complete something, even if it isn't the best option.

Anyone got any tips? I'm fed up of having to prompt him every meal time and of his clothes getting grease stains all over them. It's like he never progressed from the toddler years but in all other aspects he's a lovely and intelligent boy.

To me he sounds like he has dyspraxia. I would contact g.p and try get him seen by OT so they can help him properly. My son has dyspraxia, it makes him very clumsy, hard to write correctly because of grip needed and struggled to cut things with a knife and fork. It isnt laziness and nothing could help until we figured out what was wrong. Gripping things to use them correctly with co ordination takes alot of time, alot of stress for all involved. Definitely see if occupational therapy can help

This won’t really work with an 11-year-old to be honest. They’re not really going to care.

Why are you so sure there isn't a medical issue? I mean it there really isn't then you need to up the response. Make him eat on his own for a few meals maybe, with no TV or anything. However I think there may be a medical issue. It seems odd that he definately doesn't want to eat nicely unless there is a medical reason why he can't or a reason why he wants to be defiant (which you haven't mentioned). I have a brain injury which caused neurological issues, and coordinating a knife and fork is hard. Chewing with my mouth closed is also hard. I can do it, but I cannot do anything else meanwhile (like take in a conversation) and a whole meal of doing so would take hours and be exhausting.

It’s polite to say please when you ask someone to do something, even if it’s ultimately not optional. If you’re trying to bring your children up to be functioning members of society then you should be modelling good manners to them.

I struggled with this as a child, dysparaxia and other issues, ignore the terrible abusive advise to sit them on the floor until they can behave human etc.
work on hand to eye coordination outside of the dinner table, cut sandwiches up smaller perhaps.

I love your honesty and not trying to blame it on some kind of neuro diversity/sensory issue as lots of parents do. My son is now 19 and was exactly the same. Talking with his mouth full tok which was a real bugbear of mine. No issues just lazy and ate too fast. It does tend to sort itself out with time and maturity and self awareness

Oh man, OP, I'm sorry you're having to deal with it. Do finishing schools exist any more?

It sounds like he may have developmental coordination disorder (essentially, dyspraxia). Do not underestimate the difficulties this can cause.
As for some of the responses on here, they are seriously worrying and I hope to God half of these people are not parents or in any way responsible for showing children kindness and boosting self-esteem!
Maybe get your son assessed OP.

What would be the treatment for that?

As for some of the responses on here, they are seriously worrying and I hope to God half of these people are not parents or in any way responsible for showing children kindness and boosting self-esteem!

Agree. Some of the responses have actually really upset me — that some parents would treat their children like this.

Just because your children end up with good table manners doesn’t mean you’ve ‘succeeded’. If they’re scarred for life by the bullying you haven’t won anything.

No treatment as such. But he may benefit from occupational therapy, various aids and equipment, extra time in exams, could be anything dependent on the individual issues.
Aside from that, tolerance and understanding would be the starting point.
Him knowing it wasn’t his fault and understanding his difficulties.
Not allowing the internet to offer up punishments such as removing his food, making him stand, making himself watch in a mirror.
Not being called disgusting, vile, rude or ‘giving the ick’.
Take your pick!

Dyslexic here. I eat properly although I’ve never mastered the fork & spoon combo for curry’s and spaghetti.

These manners are just lazy and disrespectful to those around him. Dyspraxia is no excuse for eating with your mouth open and wiping greasy hands all over the place.

So every form of dyspraxia is the same?!
Everybody is affected in the same way?!
I’m dyspraxic and manage a fork and spoon combo with ease. You must be lazy and disrespectful!

Dyspraxia is not wiping your hands on your clothes. If you can close your mouth, you can close your mouth when you’re eating.

Calm down. You sound hysterical. If I touched a nerve, eat in front of a mirror.

No nerves touched. definitely not hysterical.
I just think you’re a judgmental prick and the one who should really look in the mirror.

I am being judgemental. The child’s mother is being judgemental. Society will be judgemental. Bad table manners are a social and professional handicap. It needs to be nipped in the bud.

Thanks for the responses. An interesting range. 😬

To answer some questions:

All meals and snacks are at the table. No screens, TVs etc. Usually all together unless clubs etc get in the way. There's no way he's eating on my sofa anyway!

I give him a damp flannel to wipe his hands. But he still has to be prompted not to use his clothes.

I haven't ignored it as some people have suggested 🙄. I've tried a lot of different tactics. But I'm not going to remove his food. What the fuck is wrong with some of you?

I like the mirror idea. Thanks for the tip.

Interesting points about dyspraxia. His handwriting is appalling and he is quite clumsy.

How old is he? Age 6 and above definitely should start making dinner table rules. Its a constant battle but they are capable. I have two neurodiverse kids and they are capable and can do it. We have strict dinner table rules or they get sharply reminded about expectations and if they dont adhere then they get a punishment such as no gaming.

Can you give him a long kitchen roll style napkin, tucked into his shirt?

I would not touch a damp flannel with a barge pole that sounds like sensory hell whilst trying to manage all the other sensory challenges at the table.

Also you're trying to build healthy and good habits.

If he is dyspraxic he is ND, and there's emerging studies that show that the cerebellum is smaller in ND and we have less purkinje cells which are the cells that are responsible for automating habits, which means it takes us much much longer to pick up on things automatically like brushing our teeth, combing our hair, getting dressed every day and other things most people can do easily without second guessing it in their mind.

So whilst this is frustrating you need to take the same approach every time and remain calm if you want to build habits with ND people because we need more sameness to build habits into our routines.

Sounds like he does have some sensory, spacial awareness thing going on by your description.
I'd hate the damp flannel - can you change to a tea towel, maybe attached under his chin, so he can wipe his hands on that?
He really should be using cutlery so he doesn't have to wipe his hands though. Is it cutting he struggles with, or transferring food from plate to mouth? Both? Might give you a start. If it's Cutting, I'd do it for him. Transfer, maybe a spoon would be easier?

The mouth open eating sounds like a breathing issue. Does he have hay fever/colds/sinus issues/overly large tonsils? It’s less efficient than eating with your mouth closed so I don’t think it happens for no reason.

So the rest of the family is sat around the table eating while your child is sat on the floor next to you eating.
That’s not degrading at all!!!
I’m sure they’ll grow up to be a fully adjusted adult with wonderful table manners!!

I honestly can’t believe some of the batshit responses, the vile judgemental responses, the weird responses 🤷🏻‍♀️
OP, speak to your GP or school senco, mention the various difficulties he has, ask for referral for assessment. They will decide which route to go down. In the meantime, continue as you are, being fair, kind and helpful towards your ds - ignore the batshittery here and help your ds, not punish him,

Exactly this - lovely post.

Can he tie shoelaces? My son, at 11, struggled with cutlery, had terrible handwriting, couldn't tie laces or do other fine motor things. He was seen by an OT, who quickly discovered he was very hypermobile. He need a a special pen grip, they advised special cutlery, but he wouldn't use that as he was too self conscious- to be fair, the eating wasn't too bad then and is fine now. As part of his hypermobility, his balance was terrible, which explained why he couldn't ride a bike.