To be at my wit's end with DS's table manners.

[LittlePearDrop]

DS is 11, nearly 12.

His table manners are atrocious. He has to be constantly prompted to use a knife and fork, otherwise he just uses his hands.

He drops food everywhere.

He wipes his hands on his clothes.

He chews with his mouth open.

He shovels food into his mouth as though he were starving when he absolutely is not.

If it's something like a sandwich, he can't just take a bite like a normal civilized human being. He has to pull chunks off to shove into his mouth, creating more crumbs.

We eat all meals together when at home. So it's not like he doesn't have role models. I am CONSTANTLY correcting him, every bloody meal time, and yet nothing changes. I've tried praising the good, I've tried threatening no pudding as a consequence and whilst that works in the short term, it's back to the same habits next meal time. I make him clean up his own mess.

His younger sister doesn't have any of these habits. He isn't neuro diverse. He is incredibly lazy and will always opt for the easiest route to complete something, even if it isn't the best option.

Anyone got any tips? I'm fed up of having to prompt him every meal time and of his clothes getting grease stains all over them. It's like he never progressed from the toddler years but in all other aspects he's a lovely and intelligent boy.

Agree.
@EnglishBluebell You can’t imagine doing that? …. Imagine having no choice as it’s your only way to breathe and stay alive! My dd is a mouth breather due to a nasal problem - surgery is the only answer, which will alter her facial features - she’s chosen not to have the surgery yet, she’s not ready. Pleased I don’t know you irl .. you give me the ick.

I have misophonia and eating is my major trigger. If my daughter (8) slips and chews with her mouth open she gets told in no uncertain terms that it's disgusting, and absolutely unacceptable.

I would be telling him firmly, I wouldn't try to sugar coat it or be gentle. It's revolting, and there's no excuse for it. If he's susceptible to peer pressure I would also play the 'your friends won't want to be around you while you eat if you carry on like that.

Failing that, as others have said, take the plate away unless he at the very least (as a start) closes his mouth while he chews.

I find this thread bonkers.

Using food as punishment, not giving them a chair, removing food until a certain standard is met, telling children their eating habits are disgusting and unacceptable etc. If this was used for anything else but table manners ,most people would be up in arms and talking about the possible damage and creating issues around food . Chewing with their mouth open though? Gotta bully that shit out of them!

You need much bigger/firmer consequences. If the consequence isn't working its pointless.

It’s called parenting. Pretty integral to teaching kids how to function in society so they can grow into well-adjusted, happy and successful adults.

If these basic skills aren’t learned when young, it leads to a harsh and brutal wake-up call later on. It’s literally a
parent’s JOB to equip their kid with the means to survive in the world. It’s a responsibility that can’t be shirked and if it is, it’s the child that suffers.

Is it fuck.

I like the mirror idea make him watch how disgusting he looks while eating .
We were on holiday a few years ago and I was sat facing the table behind ours and the woman was eating like an actual animal shoveling food in and chewing with her mouth wide open it was absolutely vile I loudly asked my partner to swap seats because she was knocking me sick , she got up and left very red faced

The suggestions on this thread aren’t parenting. They’re horrible and humiliating. This kid is doing really well in every other way, there is just this one thing he is struggling with. Do you really think humiliating and berating him will work? Taking his food away? Putting a mirror in front of him to show him how ‘disgusting’ he is?

As a parent it’s your job to guide your kids so they know the right way to behave. It’s not your job to punish and humiliate them. Seriously, people need to find other ways to discipline their children. Horrible.

He could have dyspraxia. Don’t be so hard on him.

Sit her on the floor. Tell her that's where she stays till she can eat like a human being. And take away her food. Do not later give her something snacky to eat. Or, use sanctions e.g. every time she drops her fork/knife, falls off the chair etc that is 10 minutes off her screen time. And enforce it.

Sit her on the floor. Tell her that's where she stays till she can eat like a human being. And take away her food. Do not later give her something snacky to eat. Or, use sanctions e.g. every time she drops her fork/knife, falls off the chair etc that is 10 minutes off her screen time. And enforce it.

What the hell is wrong with you?

I’m shocked by some of the responses on this thread. Embarrassing someone in a restaurant for eating a certain way?! Making a child sit on the floor and taking away food?! I’m a stickler for table manners but these punishments and reactions are borderline abusive!

You do realise this is abusive?

No, it really isn't. It's discipline. If someone is doing something which causes others harm or distress and they won't stop doing it then one uses various sanctions, once having tried reasoning. And losing screen time is a good thing - it's very bad for children to spend hours in front of screens.
And if you are teaching the lesson that food is to be eaten in a manner which does not upset the rest of the table then taking the food away and not giving a snack later is one very useful way of doing that. Rousseau was wrong about how children learn.

@Grammarnut harm and distress over not eating properly? Really?

How about the rest of the table mind their own business/plate so they don't get THAT distressed ?

You've just described my brother
Wonder what causes it

This is not discipline. It’s something a child would likely be traumatised by for the rest of their life.

Can you imagine in later life this child writing on Mumsnet, “I have issues around eating in public because when I was a child my mother didn’t like how I ate so she made me sit on the floor and took away my food.”

????

As @ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat says, what the hell is wrong with you?

Well, this thread is certainly making me feel better about my own parenting.

No child wants to piss off their parents unless they've learnt that's the only attention they'll ever get.

My DD has trouble eating with her mouth closed, holding on to cutlery etc. I used to get smacked for the same things and I remember how much I feared family meals as a result. Once I was old enough to move out I avoided eating with my parents for years. I didn't go back to see them from one year to the next, because it was part of a bigger pattern of being continually punished it shamed for not being a good enough person.

I turn out to be autistic and possibly dyspraxic, just very good at masking. Which was smacked into me.

So I bought my DD special cutlery that's easier to hold, and limit how much she has to cut. We don't shame. We all have napkins when we have a messy meal, and I point out people on TV who use them (if Poirot keeps his clothes nice by fucking his napkin into his collar, then it must be ok). We have posture cushions for chairs at home. We eat a lot of meals picnic style.

Ffs. Some if you are actively emotionally abusive.

My DS1 aged 12 is like this. He is very severely dyspraxic. Unfortunately my DS2 aged 10 now eats terribly too. He is not dyspraxic. I find it very difficult.

If I say to DS2 “please don’t speak with your mouth full. Please use cutlery etc” he will reply with “But DS1 doesn’t have to use cutlery properly etc.” If I come down hard on DS2, it causes embarrassment for DS1.

Does anyone have any advice on this? It’s becoming an increasing problem as DS2 and DD (aged 9) overtake DS1 developmentally.

Have you had the fair isn't equal, fair is when everyone gets what they need conversation? That would be a starting point. Your eldest needs certain concessions and adaptations, your other son doesn't because he can do it, he just chooses not to. You can even push it to make him do something (that would be annoying/awkward) that his brother HAS to do to drive the point home. He can't pick and choose .

Then I would pick one or two non negotiables (not the chewing with mouth open one) and try rewards/praise first. If that doesn't work, then you can look at fair /reasonable consequences. Have the conversations away from the table , and just give reminders while actually eating. Remember you're saving for your pikachu cards(or whatever).

Once those one or two things become ingrained/habit, I'd add more. With more conversations about fair isn't equal so it stops being an excuse.

Nothing is wrong with me - and my DCs grew up with good manners. I never sat them on the floor, except when we were all doing so, naturally, or took away food - nor did I insist everything was finished btw. I taught explicit table manners, two sorts: knife and fork and eating with only your right hand (a different cultural norm). You must explicitly teach your children table manners, they are not going to learn by osmosis e.g. by watching other people. If persuasion does not work when bad manners have set in then sanctions will. Taking away food because a child is making an utter mess on the plate, the floor and itself is not unreasonable - unless it's a toddler under 2. Sitting on the floor to eat if you cannot sit at the table properly is not unreasonable (and we did it for cultural reasons also, but that is irrelevant here) and nor are sanctions for what is misbehaviour. Limiting screen time looks like a good sanction: DC doesn't like it and also it keeps them off the screen for longer.
Your children are not your friends, and if you love them you will not treat them as if they are, but teach them how to function properly and prosperously in society.

Why do you say 'please' when you are giving your DS2 an order - not to talk with his mouth full? It makes you sound as if this is a negotiable point when it isn't. And if his elder brother has problems eating, then you need to explain and also say that though it seems unfair he has to conform to rules his brother does not, it is just as he can conform, whereas his brother cannot. Children tend to respond to the justice point.

No child ever prospered by being humiliated like that. There are a million other ways to teach your children good manners without degrading them and treating them like animals.

Can’t you see that a boy of 11/12 who is otherwise well behaved is doing this for a reason?

Also, using screen time as a bargaining tool is pathetic. It’s totally unrelated to what you’re asking him to do.

Mine was like this. Now is 14 and mainly better ! Just have to keep reminding them.

tho we are a dyslexic family and I often spill food down me unless very careful

OP tell him this story, which I've posted on MN before.

DP and I went for a quick lunch in Sainsburys cafe. The two men (mid 20s) at the next table had already got their food and were eating. When they finished they started chatting (loudly) and one of them was complaining that even if he took a girl out for dinner they never wanted a second date. I sooo wanted to lean over and say I've seen the way you eat, I can tell you why you don't get a second date.