Lucy Letby ( To understand)

[PassingStranger]

What made her kill these babies. Been in the news again today.

It's hard to understand?
Presume as she is in prison and not a hospital, she is not mentally ill?

Will anyone try to find out, I guess if people don't admit they are guilty it's hard too.

Instead of people saying give me 5 mins in a cell with her, surely it's better to stop this happening or maybe it's not possible?
Why does she want to be one of the most hated women in the universe and not give a shit about the babies families and even her own parents?

So much better to be known for doing something nice and have people like you?
AIBU to wonder why she took this road in life?

Sorry to say the police and a jury of random folk have plenty of biases of their own

It’s a conspiracy either way - either a group of doctors conspired to save their careers or a nurse conspired to go on a murderous rampage injecting air, injecting insulin, whacking one baby on the liver, another in the throat, splinting diaphragms and no-one saw a single thing.

Management made the point that there was no evidence for the accusations against LL. And there still is not. She has been convicted on the basis of claims and opinions not any actual hard evidence.

Of course management thought there was no evidence, they didn't bother to look at it.

If you think there was no evidence, what do you say was going on for 10 months in court? What was it that the jury spent so much time carefully deliberating about?

I don't think people realise just how meticulously the prosecution was put together. They took evidence from all sorts of sources - door entry logs, phones, computerised notes, medical records, cameras etc - to how exactly what was going on in that unit virtually every minute over the relevant time. All of it together with the rest of the evidence built up a case where there simply wasn't reasonable doubt in relation to the charges on which she was convicted.

She wasn’t charged with murdering them all is the point

There wasn't enough evidence to charge her with murdering all of them, is the point.

The cases with a likely conviction were chosen, is the point.

She has been found guilty of murdering and attempting to murder numerous babies.

There was a now convicted serial murderer of babies on that unit. If others died unexpectedly, I know where I'd be putting money.

Proving that beyond reasonable doubt is something else entirely though, which is why she's stood trial and been convicted for a portion of them.

Have a bit of respect for the poor babies for god's sake.

and no-one saw a single thing.

Except a parent and a consultant.

I found this extremely poignant:

"We are people that haven’t needed help or support from anyone before, we are the ones that hand out the help and assistance, not required it ourselves.

"We struggle a lot sharing with our family and friends, putting our stress and hurt on them. We feel that we’ve put everyone through it all once when Baby K passed and now it’s happening again as the first trial approached and through to a second. We don’t want the conversation to be about us and the pity that sometimes comes with that. The impact is across all aspects of your life, like ripples in the water, layer by layer of your life is touched."

go on a murderous rampage

Why would it be a "rampage"?

Rampages aren't generally quiet.

LL was all about quiet.

Except for the attention seeking chattiness afterwards with her colleagues and favourite registrar, of course.

They didn’t see anything incriminating.

The consultant absolutely did.

Why are you lying on here?

If there were other deaths that she was not charged with it means the CPS were not confident that they could get a conviction for those ones. That doesn’t mean she had nothing to do with them but they didn’t have enough evidence to show she did. I’m not sure what your argument is really. Is it that if you include the other deaths she wouldn’t have been on shift for all of them? Do you know whether she was on shift or not for the others? She wasn’t convicted solely on the basis of just being present anyway or on the basis of statistics, it was one piece in the mass of circumstantial evidence against her. Are you saying you think they all died of natural causes? Or that there is another killer? It would be helpful if you clarified.

it may be (unlikely but let’s say it is) that one of the convictions was actually a natural cause. But each count was tried separately and evidence considered separately. So even if the jury got it wrong for one, they did not get it wrong for all of them.

Well apart from the standing doing nothing as the baby collapsed. Which clearly clearly is something. Honestly.

Yes, it's absolutely heartbreaking.

One of my family experienced a stillbirth and I can still remember clearly, many years later, the anguish this caused. I can't begin to get to grips what these poor parents have had to endure. The day the police came to break the news to them that it was possible that LL had attempted to murder their baby daughter must have been shocking beyond comprehension.

Management did look at the evidence.

I’m aware of what went on in court as I followed the case. Mountains of information that has to be painstakingly sifted, but in all that, no actual hard evidence of murder in any of the cases or indeed a particular link to LL.

I watched the video you suggested - was really interesting and the witch in shadows makes sense!

The management of the unit already knew about the deaths, it was the hospital board that had to be informed. Failure to alert the hospital board would have been negligent so they didn’t have any choice.

lol okay 😂

Attempted murder by standing still.

If Jayaram really believed that at the time he had a legal obligation to report it immediately.

That is a different subject from the doctors who, with written evidence, continually pushed for an investigation and intervention...at the risk of their careers.

The doctors you are trying to frame.

What struck me as I looked at videos of the neotal wards at CoCH (https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8nbp0s ) was how small they were. I can't imagine it would have been very difficult for Letby to be alone or to avoid being seen.

And people did see things. Dr Jayaram saw her stand by and do nothing to help Child K. And mum of Child N saw her stand next to blood splattered Child N, LL didn't call for help. Another nurse said LL said was standing at doorway and said Baby I looked pale, when she could not have seen the baby's face from there. Baby I was actually in very poor condition and later died.

Attempted murder by standing still

Yes, highly trained, experienced medical professionals always stand still doing nothing in emergencies.

That's their defining feature.

A complete lack of action in a medical emergency.

What they've been trained for.

Totally normal and reasonable.

Not questionable at all.

Your ridiculousness is accumulating with each post.

Their careers were already at risk over the numbers of deaths, that’s the point. One doctor explicitly commented in an email that they were all under suspicion.

Errr she had caused the collapse and then did nothing. That was one of many many many instances of behaviour that together added up to her guilt. If you look at one in isolation, fair enough but if you look at someone who:
-wrote “I did it, I killed them” on notes

1. hoarded handover notes against protocol
2. Was present for an abnormal amount of collapses, far more than any other staff member
3. Insisted on being tasked with looking after babies that then collapsed
4. got angry when not allocated certain babies
5. on several occasions found in spaces she wasn’t allocated to
6. made various false notes to try to cover her tracks, including altering timings of things
7. babies who collapsed with her recovered when taken elsewhere
8. deaths stopped when she was on holiday, resumed on her first day back
9. stopped when taken off the ward, before it was downgraded (and some of deaths/collapses weren’t severe preemies anyway so shouldn’t make a difference)

then you have an issue. AFAIK Beverley Allitt didn’t involve a smoking gun either. That’s the point with these baby deaths. The victims can’t talk or say anything and the means used are subtle.

That would account for why management was investigating the doctors before the doctors themselves reported concerns, repeatedly ... right 🙄.